Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

EWP Cooling system mods

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    EWP Cooling system mods

    I have a Mk11 cooling system that has been modified to use an EWP and Wards header tank. The system has no thermostat, relying on the pump controller monitoring the radiator top hose temperature to attain running temperature. The controller pulses the pump in the warm up phase which means that there is intermittent coolant flow causing the heater to be hot and then cold when the pump stops. The car takes forever to warm up (especially in the winter when it rarely gets above 75º and never attains full running of the pump). I am considering modifying the system to reinstate the thermostat and have the pump run continuously. However, I want to retain the pump over run and electric fan operation feature from the controller for heat soak when the engine is hot and switched off.

    The current pipework has the heater return pipe plumbed directly back into the pump input side and the bypass pipe is blocked off. The original return point for the heater return pipe is also blocked off. I am considering refitting the heater return pipe back into its original position and extending the bypass pipe to the input side of the pump and blocking off the return point for the bypass valve. In other words transposing the heater return pipe and bypass pipe. Thus with the pump running continuously there would be a permanent flow back round the inlet manifold and as the thermostat opens this would then close off the bypass hose and the pump would pull the water through the radiator.

    Electrically I propose to put an ignition operated feed onto the pump in parallel with the EWP controller feed thus the pump will run continuously with the ignition on but will also operate via the controller when the engine is switched off. I think I will need a diode in the controller pump feed to prevent damage to the controller from any back feed from the ignition sourced feed.

    I am also considering making the ignition feed to the pump 6 volts. As the coolant temperature rises the controller would start to put a constant 6 volt supply to the pump in parallel with the ignition feed. The controller then starts to ramp up the voltage to 12 volts as the target temperature is approached thus overriding the ignition sourced 6 volt feed. This way the controller would have more control of the pump as the target temperature is reached. I believe I read somewhere that Flying Farmer had posted that he had put a constant 6 volt feed on an EWP, if so how was this achieved? I am considering using a MK1 ballast resistor for this. Perhaps the electronic experts among you would know if this resistor is OK for continuous supply to the pump and if the idea of using a diode to prevent back feed into the controller is necessary.

    Before I commit to buying the components I would appreciate all thoughts, advise and suggestions.

    Dave.
    Dave.
    Expert:- Ex is something that has been and spurt is a drip under pressure.

    #2
    I think that both the heater and bypass need to go back to the pump input. If the heater is moved back to the output it would not draw water, that’s why it was moved to the pump input in the first place.


    Is the controller using an analogue output or is it pwm? If pwm it may get complicated.
    I was thinking along the same lines but was thinking of a simple relay controlled by the fan control to switch from 6v to 12v, that way the pump would step up to 12v when the fan comes on but run 6v otherwise. It also allows the pump to run on after switch off along with the fan. You loose that ramp effect but as Neil is running 6v only all the time I assume it would be sufficient, and yes I believe he used a ballast resistor.


    Terry
    Last edited by trunt; 25 August 2020, 12:24.
    Terry Hunt, Wilmington Delaware

    www.terryhunt.co.uk

    Comment


      #3
      Thanks Terry. I think the heater water would be drawn in as the pump pushes water past the heater return point. I think the controller is PWM.
      Dave.
      Expert:- Ex is something that has been and spurt is a drip under pressure.

      Comment


        #4
        I am also modifying the EWP on my Stag. I have kept the thermostat and have made a T-connection on the heater return pipe for the bypass outlet. I am installing the temperature sensor in the RH head. No extra fan.

        9222F7EC-4CBA-4F89-932F-6061F194FB76.jpeg
        Kirsti & Ian in Norway
        1973 Stag Mk2 (ex-USA), Mallard Blue, TV8 engine, Manual O/D

        Comment


          #5
          Hi Ian, I considered a tee in the heater return pipe, unfortunately I don't have the skills and facilities to weld in the tee as you have. I did consider using a 15mm tee compression fitting but this would still entail cutting the stainless steel pipe which may prove difficult. This is why I am looking at feeding the bypass into the pump inut side and relying on water flow to pull water from the heater return.
          Dave.
          Expert:- Ex is something that has been and spurt is a drip under pressure.

          Comment


            #6
            How about shortening the tube and using hoses and a Off-the shelf T-piece? Or maybe replace the tube with hoses altogether.
            Kirsti & Ian in Norway
            1973 Stag Mk2 (ex-USA), Mallard Blue, TV8 engine, Manual O/D

            Comment


              #7
              You will have to leave the heater return on the pump inlet side or you are very unlikely to get any circulation through the heater as both inlet asnd return will be on the pressure side.
              I did use a MK1 ballast resistor, from memory it actually gives about an 8 volt feed to the pump.
              You could probably get a 15mm silicone T hose to fit into the stainless pipe, you would only have to cut it in the correct position.

              I like to slightly bell the ends of the pipes by knocking in the end of a slim socket or similar, it helps prevent the pipes blowing off when they compress with age.

              Neil
              Neil
              TV8, efi, fast road cams and home built manifolds. 246bhp 220lbft torque

              Comment


                #8
                Thanks Ian, it is a thought to replace all with hose.

                Thanks Flying Farmer, yes I see your point about the heater return. Can you point me in the direction of where I could get a tee hose please as I cannot see anything on Carbuilder Solutions site and they only have plastic tee pieces, would plastic be Ok? Where did you mount the resistor?

                Can anyone comment on the need for a diode in the EWP controller feed and if a parallel feed is Ok please? Would I need a diode in both feeds?

                Dave.
                Dave.
                Expert:- Ex is something that has been and spurt is a drip under pressure.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by fussydave View Post
                  Thanks Ian, it is a thought to replace all with hose.

                  Thanks Flying Farmer, yes I see your point about the heater return. Can you point me in the direction of where I could get a tee hose please as I cannot see anything on Carbuilder Solutions site and they only have plastic tee pieces, would plastic be Ok? Where did you mount the resistor?

                  Can anyone comment on the need for a diode in the EWP controller feed and if a parallel feed is Ok please? Would I need a diode in both feeds?

                  Dave.
                  Dave,
                  If you want Silicone hoses, could try wwwclassicsiliconehoses.uk in Tamworth. I've had all mine standard ones from them done in red Found them very helpful
                  Maurice

                  Comment


                    #10
                    "Can anyone comment on the need for a diode in the EWP controller feed and if a parallel feed is Ok please? Would I need a diode in both feeds?"

                    I have a strong personal preference to avoid diodes in automotive applications. You could achieve the same result with a relay using an ignition source to operate it. This avoids the possibility of combining 2 sources in the event of a diode failing in short circuit (the most likely failure mode) with all attendant maloperation or even increased fire risk. If you absolutely must, then ensure you use diodes rated for a voltage much higher than 15V (eg 250V+) as high voltage spikes are the principal cause for diode breakdown.

                    Remember that white ignition control wires are completely unfused, so preferable to take your Ign signal from the green circuit. It would be best practice to put a suitably rated fuse in any electrical extension.


                    White 1976 build ("Mk2") only a few mods

                    Comment


                      #11
                      2 diodes would be the safest option and may work but it stops pulsing and goes into ramp only 5 degrees below setpoint, your thermostat will be providing flow control. Also where will you have the setpoint? The running temperature will depend on the thermostat now.

                      Not really knowing about the details of the controller internals I have decided that losing that ramp effect by using a relay on the fan control is better than the potential to blow the 180 quid controller.

                      Terry
                      Terry Hunt, Wilmington Delaware

                      www.terryhunt.co.uk

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Thanks for the pointer Maurice will look into this.

                        Stagjonno, I had my eye on a 50 volt unit from Carbuilder Solutions, would this be suitable? Fitting a relay would mean that the controller would only run the pump after the ignition was switched off. I would like to have the controller take over the pump control as the target temperature was approaching thus ramping the voltage up to 12 volts rather than the pump only ever running at 6 volts.

                        I would take the supply from the same fused supply as the ewp controller.

                        Dave.
                        Dave.
                        Expert:- Ex is something that has been and spurt is a drip under pressure.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Terry, I would fit an 82 degree stat and have the controller set point at 90 degrees. So have you done away with the controller all together and are just using the fan for heat sink when the engine is switched off or are you utilising the fan relay to run the pump as well?

                          Dave.
                          Dave.
                          Expert:- Ex is something that has been and spurt is a drip under pressure.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I have not done it yet but if you add a second relay to the fan control Wire from the controller and wire it so that in the off position it’s fed by ignition voltage via a resistance and in the on position it’s fed battery voltage. Whenever the fan comes on, either in operation or as heat soak the pump will pump at 12v. At other times when the ignition is on it will pump at 8v or whatever you select as running Voltage

                            As I said you will sacrifice that 10 (or is it 5?) degree of ramping voltage but I think it will work fine, the thermostat will be assisting. I believe Neil said that the ewp pumps at a much higher rate than stock, even at lower voltages. You get full pump at 5 degrees over setpoint, maintain the heat soak feature and the over temperature warning light would still work.

                            Terry
                            Terry Hunt, Wilmington Delaware

                            www.terryhunt.co.uk

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Thanks Terry, i will have a think about that.

                              Dave
                              Dave.
                              Expert:- Ex is something that has been and spurt is a drip under pressure.

                              Comment

                              canli bahis siteleri bahis siteleri ecebet.net
                              Chad fucks Amara Romanis ass on his top ?????????????? ???? ?????? ?????? ? ??????? fotos de hombres mostrando el pene
                              güvenilir bahis siteleri
                              Working...
                              X