Re-using head studs and bolts

[AndyG]

Looking for some advice please.

I recently rebuilt my engine and used new studs and bolts for the heads, a couple of months on and the head gaskets are leaking coolant, my fault for using cheap gaskets really (live and learn). I have bought a set of BGA gaskets so hopefully they will be OK this time.

The questions I have are

1. Will it be OK to re-use the studs and bolts as they are new, I haven't seen anything about them being stretch type bolts. Just wanted to see what your thoughts are on this

2. I was planning to use Wellseal on the heads as additional help to seal them but have read this is not needed on the BGA gaskets, would it cause any problems if I did use it ?

Thanks all.

[Motorsport Micky]

1)
yes.
2)
yes, no harm.

PS: Always retorque your head after about 2-300 miles. Your new studs and bolts are eager to stretch especially after it’s had some hot/cold cycles of the engine, when they do it relaxes the torque, which blows the head gasket. Your old studs and bolts were less likely to, the excess stretch has already happened.

Micky.

[AndyG]

Thanks for the quick response Micky, puts my mind at rest.

[richardthestag]

Retorquing the heads is essential even when using quality gaskets.

Just done this on a customers engine, all studs and bolts were at 30ft/lb after 400miles of running in.

[NeilR]

Agree with all the above.

I would never not use Wellseal, I had one BGA leak water after doing what BGA said & fitting them dry.
A re- torque is also essential after a few hundred miles.

Neil

[AndyG]

I did the re-torque after 500 miles last time, think I'll do it after 200 this time. I did it to 55Ftlb last time I've read some do it to 60FtLb is it worth the extra or should I stick to the ROM figures of 55 ?

[flying farmer]

I retorque mine after the first hot/ cold cycle. Let it get up to temperature then leave it overnight to cool down.

You will find a fair bit of movement, then do it again after a couple of hundred miles and another few hundred miles after that.

The old Payen gaskets didn't compress much (if at all) after the first retorque, the BGA gaskets go down regularly when retorqued for a while.

I normally split the difference and aim for 57-58 Ftlb

Neil

[AndyG]

Thanks Neil, think I'm all set now for the Christmas break head gasket change !

[Motorsport Micky]

I did the re-torque after 500 miles last time, think I'll do it after 200 this time. I did it to 55Ftlb last time I've read some do it to 60FtLb is it worth the extra or should I stick to the ROM figures of 55 ?

I’ma bit of a radical.

I think that given that the studs are TWICE as long as the longer set bolts AND they have 2 sets of thread to deform and stretch, and that we have 3 different spec fastenings as regards studs/set bolts/No of threads employed/length of fastening...and the studs are clamping over a 3” distance OVER a thin wall cast alloy water jacket and the short set bolts down the edge clamping over solid narrow alloy casting...huh ? ( the only thing I agreed with down_the plug hole_ Gareth Thomas about) and are all supposed to give the same clamping force ? Nope.

I’ve tried to guesstimate what they end clamping forces are and have set my fastenings up differently. Studs set at 65 lb ft, ( allowing for the extra length and having 2 sets of threads) and the longer set bolts set at the manual 55 lbs ft, and the shorter set bolts at 35 lbs ft ( over solid material not very thick so a greater clamp achieved). Did it 15 years and 25,000 miles ago, no water leakage, no blown head gaskets, no problems. I retorque every year ( unwind the nuts or bolts by 1 flat and retorque up) and for the last couple of years the fastenings have returned to the same position ( marked fastening nut or bolt head) with no variation in torque.

Up to you what you use, the above is only for information, there are many Stag users out there who set their bolts to the manual spec and have no problem. All my settings are with cleaned threads with dry threads, ( the normal Triumph way) I’d prefer to use lubed threads but they improve the clamping force by about 20% and I haven’t a scrap block to test out the spare strength capacity of block threads and the fastenings.

Micky

[sujitroy]

I used ARP studs and bolts and Payen gaskets. No wellsell or anything ARP says you can reuse them as long as you don't see certain tail-tail signs. I forget details.
Sujit

[mole42]

I used Micky's torque settings the last time I did my head gaskets, they've been alright since. One re-torque at 200 miles, the next at 500, they've just had one at 1,000 miles (or thereabouts....)

Richard

[AndyG]

Agree with all the above.

I would never not use Wellseal, I had one BGA leak water after doing what BGA said & fitting them dry.
A re- torque is also essential after a few hundred miles.

Neil

I'm thinking the same now, can't see it doing any harm, I need all the help I can get to seal the heads