Engine Number

[Cleventry]

Just pulled the engine out of my 71, looking for the engine number (well obvioulsy that wasn't the reason it was pulled but, while it's out ). Can't find any trace in the alledged place where they were stamped. Any one got any other suggestions where to look?

Thank-you.

[trunt]

Did you look in the other place?? Around pistons 6/8 if I recall correctly, on the outer edge just below the deck.

Terry

[stagshelf]

This is the location of the early engine number
Regards
David

[Cleventry]

That's great. I wasn't aware there was an alternate location for earlier units. My car is a 71 and I believe this to be original engine so I will clear away the crud and take a look there tonight. Thank-you very much.

[Cleventry]

And there it was/is just like you said it would be. It almost matches what is on the heritage cert I have for the car. Cert says LE 67-HE. Does anyone know what the suffix indictates HE v EBW ?

Thanks for the help, this forum is a great resource.

IMG_2017[1].JPG

[DJT]

75D51741-89BB-4C68-B3E9-B208D079E59F.jpeg

[Registrar]

Chaps,

Can we please start to acknowledge that the details lodged on the Rimmer's site about the 'A' and 'BW' suffixes refering to 'A65' and 'A35' gearboxes is not actually correct - BECAUSE IT ISN'T.

The A starts replacing the BW at around LF24000 and the two suffixes exist alongside each other until around LF27300 by which time the only suffix used was 'A'. The BW65 box wasn't introduced until LD 41993, which was roughly at engine number LF42000. I have no idea why the suffix was changed but perhaps it was something mundane like 'Charlie lost his 'W' stamp so he started to use an 'A' but I suspect that it was something to do with the paperwork side of things as the commission number suffixes and the registration document VIN numbers also follow a similar pattern - but not necessarily all at the same time or on the same cars - hence there could be a commission number LD 30034 BW with a log book showing LD 30034 A and with an engine number LF 23050 HEA and a reg doc number LF 023050 HEA. It would appear as if there was a certain 'slackness' about the system but it didn't actually matter as everyone knew what the 'A' and 'BW' stood for and there wasn't a DVLA so the fact that the reg doc and the commission plate didn't exactly tie up just wasn't important.

The use of the HE and E is also probably not quite as presented as all the USA spec engines were suffixed 'E' and not 'HE' (and sometimes 'UE') but the 1970 & 1971 cars sent to the USA were built with high compression pistons. The lower compression didn't come in until the 1972 model year. In fact, the 'U' may have only been used in the numbering of the low compression engines but I don't have quite enough totally accurate information to be able to make that statement just at the moment. So it could be that 'HE' was used for UK & Rest of the World high compression engines, 'E' was used for USA high compression engines and 'UE' was used for USA low compression engines. with BW being added where appropriate for engines built for mating to automatic boxes - which morphed into 'A' over time.

Sorry Dave, that wasn't a poke at you as you have given information in good faith but the information that I have (on 17,000 Stags and their numbers) has shown that at least some of the accepted table is actually not correct. This will be the subject of a magazine article in the future but I'm busy writing other articles just at the moment.

Peter

[Registrar]

So .....

Can you confirm the chassis number (scan of the heritage certificate to registrar@stag.org.uk would be gratefully received).

From what you say, this must be a federal car, in which case I will explain to anyone watching that the USA engine number sequences ran parallel to the UK & Rest of the World sequences. Therefore there was an LF 67 HE in a UK car somewhere and LE 67 EBW in a USA car. The LF 67 would have been used in June or July 1970 as it was the 67th UK engine produced, whereas the LE 67 would have been put in the 67th (or thereabouts) USA car - which would not have been produced until Jan or Feb 1971.

Interesting that the Heritage certificate shows a different suffix to that actually stamped on the engine - which rather proves what I said above about the paperwork and stamping not necessarily being the same throughout the process.

The use of EBW without the U also agrees with U not being used on early, high compression, USA engines.

Peter

[DJT]

Peter,

May I suggest a summary of this information is posted in the reference section of this Forum and/or on the main web pages? Any magazine articles will only be available to most members for a month or so as many do not keep their copies for long.

[Cleventry]

Hi everyone, very sorry if I raised anyone's ire. Statements in all caps always a little worrying. This was an innocent attempt to use the wealth of knowledge on here to help me with my own little walk through history. I guess I'm a bit of an anorak and I get a kick out of these types of historical data. The extra info provided on the use of other letters and the suffix is fascinating. I'd be happy to send a copy of the heritage certificate to the email address provided, I'll dig it out tonight.

Yes the car is a federal car with a vehicle build date of Feb 11th 1971. Just like me, the car was born in Coventry in the 70's and ended up living in the USA. I pulled it out of a barn in VA last summer where it had been sat since 1990 after a head gasket blew ( fortunately I did not spend the last 30 years in a barn in VA ) I'm chuffed to bits that the car appears to have the original engine and I plan to spend the winter rebuilding the engine and getting the rest of the car in a useable condition in time to catch some of the summer season this year.

Thanks to you all for the information.

[Registrar]

Dear All,

To some degree I apologise for the capitals but I am getting fed up of incorrect information being propegated, albeit innocently, as it doesn't half get in the way of the truth. The problem is that I am actually checking 'facts' and finding that they are not 'facts' at all but rumour and guesswork from thirty years ago which have become 'fact' because nobody bothered to either check or question. I am now questioning and my answers will be published in the magazine for all to read as the magazine is the only instrument which actually gets to every member - and through the digital magazine archive on the website, it is there for all to read whenever they want (with an index for those who want to take the short cuts). If people read it and forget what they have read or just don't read it in the first place, then that is not really my issue. I dealt with this in issue 446 February 2020 as the first of my 'Know Your Stag' articles.If you cast around the net, or in classic car magazines, you will fnd that I am regularly in print, correcting ill informed statements but I just cannot be everywhere at once.

As Dave suggests, it would be nice to gather this information together within the Technical Pages but I am too busy doing the research to be able to cover all the bases. The information is all in my article if anyone feels the need to help by getting it put up within the forum references.

For those that are interested, my current projects are a) correcting the situation in respect of Federal cars by writing the '50 Years' articles, b) scanning copies 300 - 335 of the magazine so that they can be lodged on the website for all (including the marvellous techincal articles written by Crankpin), c) searching out further items for the Club archive (latest are copies of the workshop manual in Dutch and the Mayfair magazine from 1970 in which Stag was reviewed), d) adding all the 2020 information gathered from membership forms to the Register of cars e) trying to get further register information from the German, Dutch, Swiss and Belgian Clubs, f) discussing the real reason why Stag got such a bad reputation in the seventies - including trying to find out when that reputation actually started and to do this I have acquired 400 copies of past classic car magazines for research and am continuing to search for missing copies g) researching and writing the history of the Speke factories for a future series of magazine articles - in this I have corrected the relevant Wikipedia entries which are incorrect h) looking into the use of the Stag engine by Saab in 1970 i) digitizing the Club archive so that individual items can be lodged on the website for all to access - and all that is alongside being being the Club telephone contact for membership and all other general matters. So perhaps I can be forgiven for not covering all the forum bases. If anyone feels so inclined, there is plenty of research to be done - especially if you live near Gaydon as when the lock-down is lifted it would be really useful to start lookingat their archives for supporting information. Or perhaps one/some of you could volunteer to add things that I have made available on the website to the forum references - even if it is by way of a link to the website item.

Wiliam, Glad to welcome a fellow anorak to the World of Stag. If this stuff floats your boat, then check out my articles in the past magazines - under 'Know Your Stag' and 'The Club Stag Archive' - all available on the website - from October 2018. From the picture of your engine number, not only does it have the original engine but the original (generally) flat top original 8.8:1 pistons.

Peter

[jbuckl]

Peter,
your info is fabulous.
Please hit the return key more often, to help it become more readable on the screen if possible!
Many thanks for sharing your valued info.
For domestic reasons I had to jettison my large collection of magazines / articles with stag info

[trunt]

Peter,
I assume you have access to the USA Stag registry where a lot of federal engine numbers are shown?

[Registrar]

JBuckl Point taken with the long paras - don't know if I can achieve it though.

Trunt If you mean the USA Club register, then I have occassional access but if you mean TriumhStag.net, then that is inactive now isn't it ? I do however, have a print out of the past entries.

Peter

[trunt]

Yes the USA club register..