Out of the box and fit (not straight forwards) follow up

[richardthestag]

Unfortunately Singapore Stag closed his original thread after receiving yet another shoeing by the Stagweber fanclub https://www.socforum.com/forum/forum...ard#post835579

Not fair NeilR is all I am going to say.

Anyway Paul Goldstar popped over to my workshop yesterday with his latest stag, very nice motor and the 2nd that I have seen with the weber install.

Paul also had the 3k rpm issue and was on the hunt through my parts stock for a return spring.

In a nutshell by operating the throttle by the cam attached to the side of the carb the nasty ferrule gets caught up behind the fork and the throttle sticks open at almost exactly 3k rpm.

This also happed to Paul when he revved the engine using the throttle pedal. I guess that the fork came back quicker than the cable and exactly the same thing happened - the ferrule was displaced from the fork and the carb could not return to idle. Pauls car is a manual gearbox so a disaster was averted. Throttle stuck at 3k rpm on an automatic is going to be less fun.

Alas the throttle return spring will not prevent this from happening again. On the strom installation a similar collar exists on the linkage but is held in place by a circlip. I was also concerned at the length of the clevis pin that secured the fork to the carb. the fork was very sloppy and could get caught up on the inlet manifold. I installed a shorted clevis pin and r-clip and sent Paul on his way.

This is the before image but after we installed the return spring and still experienced the 3k rpm scenario. The ferrule has a sleeve that gets caught up the wrong side of the fork. A bit crap really

20220502_123514.jpg


I am going to guess that the throttle spring is not included because without it the throttle pedal is very light and gives an impression of oodles more power and a faster response. Paul will probably respond to this thread but I understand that the performance tailed off quite quickly in the mid range.

[KOY 23]

Been there had that😩. An auto stag “idling� at 3k is not too easy to hold on the brakes. Hopefully the supplier finally now has product liability insurance, as this conversion is a safety hazard to the driver and other road users. Imagine the damage to classic car reputation when a runaway Stag mows down pedestrians.
Maybe the fanboys will finally realise why many of us are not fanboys and with good reason!

[singapore stag]

As always, logic, good sense and insight prevails.... thanks Richard and Koy 23. Look at the unfair response I got from NeilR and fussdave.
I had to inprovise with the plate rubbing on the manifold also had to ' make ' a spring that was not too strong and long.
I had to get another solderless nipple, the one supplied was a joke.
Still problems......when you rev at stationary it is not an instant response, what do you call it a 'flat spot'
I wonder if there are shares in the company that some defend so vigorously. I give up, better to keep mouth shut and let each find out the hard way.

[fussydave]

I can assure you that I am neither a member of any Stagweber fan club nor do I have shares in that company. However, I find it annoying when I read posts condemning products from any company when they have either been poorly installed or deemed to be faulty without a shred of evidence to back up such statements. My comments were indeed to establish whether the conversion kit being used was new or an older product that had not been updated or whether it had been correctly fitted.

There are a small number of people on this forum that continually bait a certain member of the forum (even though he states he no longer has anything to do with Stagweber) and he is to be admired for the way that he does not rise to such baiting. If there are issues with the Stagweber install, surely this should be taken up with them, and if they are genuine then they should carry out the necessary modifications to overcome this. Has Singapore stag spoken to Stagweber about the problems he has encountered? They have no doubt sold many of these conversion kits and I am sure there are many satisfied customers who have not experienced these issue (NeilR for example) so maybe, the problems noted in this thread are down to a few specific vehicles.

[singapore stag]

What should I do , write an essay, take copious pictures, have signed affidavits, have independant chatered Engineering companies test and analyse, all this for evedence sake? Foe whose pleasure? Yours? No thank you. Thake a drive down and I will make you a cuppa and evaluate yourself.

My friends, for the last 14 years on this forum know me, and they know I dont make things up or exaggerate. I know Chris Spain since he got the Weber to fit the Stag. He tested it on my car first, and we worked closely. I have in the first instance got in touch with him and always do so..
Thats enough information for you, I dont owe you an explanation, take my writings or lump them. Only for the eyes that can ' see ' what I am on about.
Lastly no love lost, We are still friends?
P.S I have nothing to gain by saying it as it is, products for me cost money which I have not got.

[fussydave]

If I had spent £500 on something and it was faulty, not fit for purpose or not as described I certainly would be taking photos, and gathering evidence. Bit OTT getting a chartered engineer, but if there are genuine issues with the design then yes some fact gathering would be the correct thing to do, especially if there is a perceived safety issue as some have suggested.

[JeffW]

Coincidentally when I was at the car today taking photos of the EWP I am having issues with, I saw this post. Mine also has a PO-installed Weber - so here are a couple of pics.

Is the spring visible the one you are referring to? Or am I missing the point?

Jeff

[richardthestag]

the spring fitted to yours looks a bit loose but is the spring that I mentioned.

However it is not the issue with the 3k rpm debacle.

I have pointed at the brass ferrule shoulder. if the edge of the shoulder goes through the cheap folded bit of stainless steel which makes up the fork then it will prevent the throttle from returning to idle

20220502_123514.jpg

a possible solution would to be cut a small grove and secure the ferrule to the fork with a circlip.

The other thing that I wasn't that impressed with was the lack of any smooth idle. The ignition timing was bang on but there is no way at all would the engine tolerate a coin standing on it's edge on top of the frying pan air filter.

Is this a feature of this carb install

[richardthestag]

What are you actually bringing to this thread Fussydave? I do not mean to escalate anything but you seem to be incredibly defensive. All I have done here, largely for Singapore Stag sanity, is to clarify my experiences of the 3k rpm issue which is documented in a number of places, here and Graeme Oxley doc etc etc NeilR and you to a lesser extent looked to ridicule Singapore Stag

Had the kit been supplied by any other company I am 100% confident that the square root of bugger all defence would have happened. But because it is a stagweber product there are the same crowd who leap to the defence every single time. I am genuinely surprised that the rest have not joined in..

My post is not about giving Stagweber a wedgie, it is about highlighting an issue that I believe is probable in every installation such as that on Paul Goldstars Stag.

[fussydave]

What am I bringing to the thread?, as you say defence against the implication that I may have an interest in Stagweber. However, I can offer a simple solution to the 3K issue. Another solderless nipple could be fitted immediately behind the first one thus preventing it from passing through the bracket. No need then for a groove or modification to the bracket.

[Wheelz]

What am I bringing to the thread?, as you say defence against the implication that I may have an interest in Stagweber. However, I can offer a simple solution to the 3K issue. Another solderless nipple could be fitted immediately behind the first one thus preventing it from passing through the bracket. No need then for a groove or modification to the bracket.

Thank you Dave, I will pass that comment on to the new owner.

[Wheelz]

STAGWEBER ANNOUNCEMENT.

In relation, and reaction to this topic, I invite those interested to refer to my statement in the section on SOC Club business
Thank you.
Chris

[new to this]

Unfortunately Singapore Stag closed his original thread after receiving yet another shoeing by the Stagweber fanclub https://www.socforum.com/forum/forum...ard#post835579

Not fair NeilR is all I am going to say.

Anyway Paul Goldstar popped over to my workshop yesterday with his latest stag, very nice motor and the 2nd that I have seen with the weber install.

Paul also had the 3k rpm issue and was on the hunt through my parts stock for a return spring.

In a nutshell by operating the throttle by the cam attached to the side of the carb the nasty ferrule gets caught up behind the fork and the throttle sticks open at almost exactly 3k rpm.

This also happed to Paul when he revved the engine using the throttle pedal. I guess that the fork came back quicker than the cable and exactly the same thing happened - the ferrule was displaced from the fork and the carb could not return to idle. Pauls car is a manual gearbox so a disaster was averted. Throttle stuck at 3k rpm on an automatic is going to be less fun.

Alas the throttle return spring will not prevent this from happening again. On the strom installation a similar collar exists on the linkage but is held in place by a circlip. I was also concerned at the length of the clevis pin that secured the fork to the carb. the fork was very sloppy and could get caught up on the inlet manifold. I installed a shorted clevis pin and r-clip and sent Paul on his way.

This is the before image but after we installed the return spring and still experienced the 3k rpm scenario. The ferrule has a sleeve that gets caught up the wrong side of the fork. A bit crap really

20220502_123514.jpg


I am going to guess that the throttle spring is not included because without it the throttle pedal is very light and gives an impression of oodles more power and a faster response. Paul will probably respond to this thread but I understand that the performance tailed off quite quickly in the mid range.

Looking at that design, you could simplify it, do away with that stainless bracket and brass ferrule, and fit a carpurettor knuckle stright on the cable and the other half of the knuckle goes to the carburettor linkage, have done some thing similar on my EFI set up

Dave

PS the carburettor knuckles are sold on Ebay

[wilf]

Just a thought - the 3k rpm "hang-up" thing can happen on a completely standard Stromberg set up, if the end ferrule of the outer cable "jumps" out of it's socket at the carb end. A very quick flick and release of the throttle can do this I have found.

So not, in fact, unique to Webers.

[MikeParker]

Just a thought - the 3k rpm "hang-up" thing can happen on a completely standard Stromberg set up, if the end ferrule of the outer cable "jumps" out of it's socket at the carb end. A very quick flick and release of the throttle can do this I have found.

So not, in fact, unique to Webers.

Wilf is quite right. This happens to my car (absolutely original Stroms) if there is sufficient play in the throttle cable to allow the ferule to pop out of the bracket. The solution is to loosen the set screw and pull through the bowden cable inner until there is no play.

May I suggest that part of the problem here is that making major mods to a car like swapping the carb out need some mechanical skill or help from someone who is quite handy with this stuff. Just bad mouthing suppliers is not the way forward. First get back to the supplier and explain the problem. If all else fails ask someone here to help you out. Most of us here have had these problems and can help. I have had major issues with one of the most well respected Stag experts. I listed my problems and asked him to sort them out out and he did. I did not shame him here.