Black Wheel Nuts

[Woolly]

Thanks all.

2 a night, perhaps I should have brought them with me! Currently on holiday and the weather isn’t in the same holiday mood I’m in!!!

Is there a time frame on Mike sourcing new black nuts?!?!?! From this I take it tha the set offered by Rimmers are perhaps not up to par?

[Wheelz]

There has been a lot of concern about tolerances on the nut sleeve diameter that might cause wheel imbalance, also the lack of chamfer on repro nuts, so any you buy from the vendors you need to might be pot luck. If you can wait you might benefit from a better fit.

[APS]

Hi guys, I have just stripped the thread on one of my alloy nuts. I didn't even apply much effort in doing so.
Just checked all the others and three have already been replaced with steel nuts.
Should I replace all of them with new steel nuts or just one at a time as and when they become stripped.

[Wheelz]

Wait until they fall off by themselves.......... Only kidding of course.

I think you know the right thing to do.

[Lingen]

APS.
I think you should replace them all asap. They are now nearly 50 years old and clearly starting to fail. Just make sure you get decent ones as per the posts above.
Mike.

[APS]

Thanks Mike that was what I was thinking. Getting decent ones ? Any recommendations for a supplier?

looking at the nuts available from all the usual Stag specialist suspects they all look to be offering the same nuts.

[Lingen]

The usual problem! The only thing I can suggest is that you could accurately measure the cylindrical part of your alloy nuts with a vernier gauge, and see that the replacements are the same. If you can get a supplier to confirm that before sending them to you, you will deserve medal, but it must be worth a try.
Mike.

[Lingen]

My comment above needs updating.
I have just found an old alloy nut, and compared it with a black steel one (which mine now all are), and there are several differences.
The widest washer-like part of the alloy nut is an exact fit in to the shallow machined out area around the stud hole, and the cylindrical part that goes in to the wheel has a small outward taper up to the "Washer", which fits in to a corresponding taper at the start of the wheel nut hole. These will centralise the wheel accurately.
The steel nut only has a well-undersize loose washer, and no taper. However, the cylindrical part is very slightly larger.
The drillings in the wheel for the nuts, are reduced to the size of the studs on the back of the wheel. This is to centralise the wheel well enough to get the nuts to fit in their holes, and then the exact-fitting alloy nuts will finish the job.
I have found that after many years of dragging the heavy wheels on and off the studs, the holes can be "Filed" till they are oval, and a loose fit on the studs, but the taper and the washer on the alloy nuts could still maintain the centrality of the wheel.
Not so with the steel ones. (well the ones I have, anyway.) The more wear there is at the back of the wheel, the more chance there is of it not fitting centrally,
I don't know what steel nuts are available these days, but it seems what is needed is a steel nut made to the same shape as an alloy one.
I don't suppose this helps much, but it gave me something to do for an hour!
Mike.

[Wheelz]

Mike Parker is looking into getting some replacements which should perform better. (refer to the thread last week approx).

[MikeParker]

My comment above needs updating.
I have just found an old alloy nut, and compared it with a black steel one (which mine now all are), and there are several differences.
The widest washer-like part of the alloy nut is an exact fit in to the shallow machined out area around the stud hole, and the cylindrical part that goes in to the wheel has a small outward taper up to the "Washer", which fits in to a corresponding taper at the start of the wheel nut hole. These will centralise the wheel accurately.
The steel nut only has a well-undersize loose washer, and no taper. However, the cylindrical part is very slightly larger.
The drillings in the wheel for the nuts, are reduced to the size of the studs on the back of the wheel. This is to centralise the wheel well enough to get the nuts to fit in their holes, and then the exact-fitting alloy nuts will finish the job.
I have found that after many years of dragging the heavy wheels on and off the studs, the holes can be "Filed" till they are oval, and a loose fit on the studs, but the taper and the washer on the alloy nuts could still maintain the centrality of the wheel.
Not so with the steel ones. (well the ones I have, anyway.) The more wear there is at the back of the wheel, the more chance there is of it not fitting centrally,
I don't know what steel nuts are available these days, but it seems what is needed is a steel nut made to the same shape as an alloy one.
I don't suppose this helps much, but it gave me something to do for an hour!
Mike.

As Chris said, I have asked for a quote for 160 off nuts as close to the original alloy design as I could draw, but in stainless. I am still waiting for that. Another member has had some made and if his turn out well he said he will put me in contact with his supplier.

Tony White kindly pm'd me and offered me access to his box of nuts to measure the various sizes. The key dimension on my original alloy nuts is the shank diameter as you correctly say Mike. The chamfer at the top of the shank may also be important. On my nut/wheel combination there is similar lateral play on the chamfer as the shank, with the nut fully inserted in the wheel, so it would appear, most lateral positioning is achieved by the shank in my case.

The diameter of the shank on my alloy nuts varies from about 18.65mm at the open end to about 18.75 at the chamfer end. So that is the sort of diameter we want to see on the after market nuts. From Tony's selection that is far from the case. The worst were sub 17 mm and the best after market nut was 18.5mm. Tony had many original alloy nuts which were similar to mine. There seemed to be variation even within one type.

So a service to mankind would be to measure the nuts from the main suppliers. Tony did not have any stainless nuts, so perhaps these are better? He did have some black steel nuts which were also way off size.

I will report back when I hear more.
Mike

[APS]

I have ordered a set of 16 black steel nuts from Paddocks, I will measure them and report back the dimensions.

[MikeParker]

I have ordered a set of 16 black steel nuts from Paddocks, I will measure them and report back the dimensions.

Thanks, that would be great. If all else fails, I will need to buy some!
Mike

[mjheathcote]

Yes I know there are issues with the sizing of some steel nut replacements.
However I would certainly not still be using the original alloy wheel nuts.
It was a crazy idea by Triumph 50 years ago, and today I simply would not drive a Stag with them fitted. Period.
The possibility of them being cross threaded or over torqued damaging the soft threads or weakening them is simply too high. Maybe not by you, but someone else over the last 50 years.

[jbuckl]

Yes I know there are issues with the sizing of some steel nut replacements.
However I would certainly not still be using the original alloy wheel nuts.
It was a crazy idea by Triumph 50 years ago, and today I simply would not drive a Stag with them fitted. Period.
The possibility of them being cross threaded or over torqued damaging the soft threads or weakening them is simply too high. Maybe not by you, but someone else over the last 50 years.

If the alloy nut threads are undamaged & the shank still holds the wheel concentrically…. There’s not a risk.
But we mustn’t assume those 2 requirements…. I collected a large number of alloy nuts , checked , cleaned & got the good ones re anodised.
Seem fine at the moment for tightness.
I did buy aftermarket nuts but had issues with the shank diameters being too small or too large. (Junk)

[APS]

My steel wheel nuts arrived this morning. I have measured them and wish I hadn’t. If I just fitted them to the car all may have been fine !

They do not have the small chamfer that is just below the nut head.

I ordered from paddocks because they had 16 as a set, SOC spares did not have enough stock to make a set. Pictures of the items looked identical from all the main Stag suppliers, if they are different then I could not tell by picture or description.

The first picture is of my old alloy nut.
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