Oversteer

[barkerwilliams]

My Stag has a tendancy to oversteer, even when taking a corner reasonably steadily. It just feels twitchy as though rapid cornering could lead to it swapping ends easiliy. What should I check through.

Alan

[StagJonno]

How old are your tyres? Anything over 10 years will have hardened the tread, even though it has no cracks. Otherwise, check pressures, then tracking. Unless you're suffering "the Twitch"

[flying farmer]

Check the trailing arm and diff mounting bushes too. Sloppy diff mounts can allow a sudden sideways shift of the diff under cornering.

Also check the rear tracking and rear shock absorbers

[barkerwilliams]

Tyres three years old, Oversteer seems progressive, more steering input the faster the rear comes around, almost like drifting, I believe the twich is a sudden kick. Rear shocks and springs (standard) replaced about four years ago, perhaps 2,000 miles of use. All bushes replaced when car rebuilt four years ago. Might be tracking but tyres have no tell-tale wear / roughening of tread edges.

Feels as if large weight in boot that hangs the tail out in corners.

Alan

[StagJonno]

Think 4-wheel tracking might identify something.

[Lingen]

Alan
Something is clearly wrong, and I think the 4 wheel tracking is a good suggestion. Normally you would get understeer if you were caught out by a sharper-than- expected bend, and you would have to try seriously hard to get the back end to break out on a dry road.
That is the case with my bog standard car anyway. Many years ago I was driven round the Ferrari test circuit in it, by a friend who had more confidence than me, and I was amazed how stable it was in a full 4 wheel drift under power. I even learnt how to do it myself eventually, but I don't make a habit if it. It's too expensive on tyres!
Mike.

[jbuckl]

Stag handling (without spline locking) is normally very good… even compared with much later cars.
they are quite tolerant of excessive toe-in.
although really excessive toe in can cause understeer.
Is there any tyre tread feathering ( felt by hand?)

check toe-in & lube the splines.
also check mounting integrity…. Rear subframe, top strut mountings & track control arms.

[stag8manod]

Enjoy the oversteer, better than understeer.
Cheers Ian A

[Tdafforn]

Agree, ssomething probably up. what does the camber of the rear wheels look like?
Tim

[DJT]

Enjoy the oversteer, better than understeer.
Cheers Ian A

Understeer: This results in going through the hedge forwards
Oversteer: This results in going through the hedge backwards.
Power: This determines how big a hole you make in the hedge
Torque: This determines how much of the hedge you take with you

[richardthestag]

What tyres do you have fitted?

Serious question, when I first got my stag it came with what my tyre fitter referred to as van tyres, because of the shape of them, the width of the tread was not always in contact with the road especially when cornering.

This coupled with 7 year twitch did create some moments which I was young enough to enjoy fully.

Still no where near as arse happy as a early SD1 3.5 that I could power slide at the slightest hint of a damp road

[Motorsport Micky]

Enjoy the oversteer, better than understeer.
Cheers Ian A

No..No..No Understeer is safe, the car goes straight on until it has scrubbed off enough speed to turn into the corner, how to cure ? drive into the corner slower and power out, oversteer...will kill you. Your back end coming round will take you straight into oncoming traffic ...or a tree. Even if you steer into it the car will run wide straight into oncoming trouble.

Forgive me for showing drivers who have never had a car in a pure drift how to use the mixture of lack of grip on the front and lack of of grip on the rear to balance the car in a drift.


Check this out... Fangio drifting.png

Fangio drifting around a corner in one of his Grand Prix wins . The nose cone damage was caused by a slower moving car swerving in front of him at the start.

He started out the corner...by understeering into it, then converted the understeer into the drift by applying more throttle (this only takes fractions of a second) which alters the rear tyres slip angles on the tyres (not skid...slip). The increased power to the rear wheels deforms the tyre grip area (the slip) which reduces the rear tyre grip which allows the rear of the car to come around and when Fangio judges it's enough he positions the car into a drift with the front wheels pointing dead ahead just like the rear wheels and goes through the corner pointing towards the infield, and Fangio holds the power constant through the corner. This is a good photo because it shows an advanced driving technique not easily shown on modern F1 cars because the tyres don't show up the drift as easily, and there is even more to see...he's banking revs.
A pure drift is as I described "with the front wheels pointing dead ahead just like the rear wheels and goes through the corner pointing towards the infield" however in this photo you can see that Fangio has deliberately exceeded the drift condition probably by applying enough throttle for a couple of hundred extra revs. This means to avoid oversteering off as the rear comes around he has had to apply more steering lock compromising the pure dead ahead drift but carrying (banking) the advantage of the 200 extra revs throughout the corner and into the following straight...200revs x rear axle ratio = more speed incrementally down the entire straight.

Remember if you fit only 2 new tyres to your car...where do you fit them ? You'd be surprised how many drivers say the front...because they don't want their front wheels to lock under braking - cure, drive slower. Or they don't want their car to understeer into a corner - cure drive slower (starting to get the idea ?).
If you put new tyres on your car on the front you are booby trapping it, at some time you will be going downhill on a filthy night with rain streaming down just within the limits of grip and there will be a curve which the new tyres on the front allow you to take but the harder (old tyres get hard and lose their grip) tyres on the back don't stand a chance and you'll oversteer off into the oncoming traffic or the boondocks. Don't believe me ? see what Mr Michelin teaches.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdSf0KJie_E&t=7s

Understeer good, oversteer bad.

Micky

TR Register Race Champion 5 times with 4 cylinder and V8 cars.