Frustrating Failure

[DJT]

Went to put the car into my garage this evening after using it during the day and it would not turn over. Finally tracked the fault down to failure of the relay fitted to prevent the click-nothing syndrome. Removed it from circuit and the car started first turn of the key. Frustrating when something fitted to prevent failure fails itself!

[jbuckl]

Yeah … snake oil probably.

Just masks ignition control issues & or starter solenoid contact issues.

[MikeParker]

Went to put the car into my garage this evening after using it during the day and it would not turn over. Finally tracked the fault down to failure of the relay fitted to prevent the click-nothing syndrome. Removed it from circuit and the car started first turn of the key. Frustrating when something fitted to prevent failure fails itself!

Dave,

Commiserations. I was thinking of fitting one of those. I may think again now! Are you able to say which supplier you used?
I had the click..nothing quite regularly after long winter dormant periods. It was always the power contacts in the solenoid corroding - they are just bare copper. Cured by tinning the contacts with lead free solder.

Mike

[DJT]

Julian,

I can understand the reason for using the relay; reducing load on the ignition switch. I fitted a new solenoid a few years ago and a new ignition switch. I fitted the relay to protect the switch. I did not expect it to be the cause of a failure to proceed.

[jbuckl]

Julian,

I can understand the reason for using the relay; reducing load on the ignition switch. I fitted a new solenoid a few years ago and a new ignition switch. I fitted the relay to protect the switch. I did not expect it to be the cause of a failure to proceed.

Oh ok & sorry (!)

I thought possibly you fixed 3 things & only 2 were necessary ? (!)

[new to this]

Went to put the car into my garage this evening after using it during the day and it would not turn over. Finally tracked the fault down to failure of the relay fitted to prevent the click-nothing syndrome. Removed it from circuit and the car started first turn of the key. Frustrating when something fitted to prevent failure fails itself!

Do you know what the current rating of the relay ?

[MikeParker]

Do you know what the current rating of the relay ?

The problem is that it is also a very inductive load - so lots of arcing on switching off. It may need a snubbing diode to ground to stop the relay burning out. Do they fit one to the relay kits?

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[richardthestag]

what gets me about these "improvements" is that the car didn't do this when new.

why not fix root cause which is invariably the gearbox loom connector

All these little upgrades / improvements are just dealing with the developing fault rather than fixing it

[MikeParker]

what gets me about these "improvements" is that the car didn't do this when new.

why not fix root cause which is invariably the gearbox loom connector

All these little upgrades / improvements are just dealing with the developing fault rather than fixing it

I am just worried about the starter key-switch going fut. The solenoid takes a lot of current and inductive load etc. So my thought was a relay would just make the key-switch last longer. If Tony Hart thinks its a good idea it must be!

[wilf]

In an effort to achieve reliable starting, I have, over the years, replaced:

The starter
The gearbox loom/connector/inhibitor switch (this was a horrific mess!)
The ignition switch

I have kept the relay to take to load off my nice NOS ignition switch as that is empirically a VG idea.

I do have reliable starting now. But each element I replaced was playing its part in the previous unreliability. In a car pushing 50 years old, I am really not surprised.

[Wheelz]

IMO the root cause is often a worn ignition/starter switch. But I doubt if the replacements are anywhere near the quality of the originals. So a relay is a good idea provided it is a decent quality one, many of which are available if you buy from RS etc. The addition of a diode as suggested would be a bonus for added reliability.

[MikeParker]

IMO the root cause is often a worn ignition/starter switch. But I doubt if the replacements are anywhere near the quality of the originals. So a relay is a good idea provided it is a decent quality one, many of which are available if you buy from RS etc. The addition of a diode as suggested would be a bonus for added reliability.

The starter is one of the few parts that, if it fails, you are seriously stuck.Starting up on the euro-tunnel is a bi-annual terror for me. . As well as the switch failing (several times but many years ago) I have also had the arm that engages the pinion bend out of shape. It was when the car failed to start on first attempt and I turned the switch a second time too soon. There was a that cog on cog graunching sound, as the pinion failed to engage, and then nothing. The arm is quite thin steel and it just collapsed. I bent it straight and welded a rib along the back to stiffen it. I think of that arm every time I start the car in a vulnerable spot! That was about 15 years ago, but I still don't feel relaxed about it.

[jbuckl]

In my early days of daily driving a stag (1989 ish) I confess, I carried a 2lb hammer to coax the starter (!)
Reaching down to tap it one day, it touched the solenoid contacts & started.
At that point I stopped hitting it & just bridged the contacts for future non starts.

The repair was just replacing the solenoid contacts… available for pence back then.

Subsequently have had to clean ignition switch contacts once.

Also had the zf conversion… found the loom was corroded at the 7 way connector.

Also had to replace the inhibitor switch when it was stil a type 35.

Never fitted extra parts though.

[DJT]

Do you know what the current rating of the relay ?

30 amp. Just tested it on the bench and, although switching, there is a high resistance across the output terminals. Having opened it up I find that moisture has got inside. Looks like wrong type of relay or poorly sited, which would be my fault.
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[new to this]

Went to put the car into my garage this evening after using it during the day and it would not turn over. Finally tracked the fault down to failure of the relay fitted to prevent the click-nothing syndrome. Removed it from circuit and the car started first turn of the key. Frustrating when something fitted to prevent failure fails itself!

Thanks