Front brake upgrade BCC, other?

[Paul Kelley]

I'm thinking about upgrading my standard brakes. They are not bad at all, probably good in period, but there's no denying that modern cars stop quicker. Has anyone fitted this kit offered by BCC? Or would you recommend another brand, e.g. Willwood?

https://britishclassiccarparts.com/products/triumph-stag-front-caliper-kit

Thanks

Paul

[jakesmig]

I've got Wilwoods fitted to mine and they are excellent.
Regarding the brakes on 'moderns', the brakes are overdesigned, controlled by ABS systems and are paired with tyres which in the Stag era would have been considered really wide with a large diameter, The width and diameter of a tyre is a huge consideration in braking and the 'skinny' Stag tyre will always lock and skid relatively easilly.

John

[RNF]

Actually, it's the tires that stop the car, not the brakes. Just like if you've ever been on ice, the brakes stop the wheel, but there's no friction between the tire and the road, hence you slide along.

If you want your Stag to stop quicker, the easiest way is stickier rubber, the next would be sticky fat rubber, then finally sticky fat rubber and a lightened Stag. Probably a few others as well, but you get the picture.

They look cool though.

[Paul Kelley]

Thanks John and RNF, good to know that you're pleased with the Wilwoods and point taken re tyres versus brakes. I'm not about to fit 9 inch wide tyres and sticky racing rubber tho'! P.

[mike@thenook]

I have Wilwoods but in all honesty the standard brakes if in full working order and fitted with some decent pads (Mintex are a favourite) the are perfectly acceptable and will stop a standard Stag as quick as you need. The rear brakes need to be properly maintained too and the self adjusters working properly.
The Wilwoods will give in my experience, a more controlled and gradual response but will also lock a wheel up if too much pressure is applied too quickly which is not ideal, you learn their ways as with any car, my Cooper S will do the same thing on the wrong/wet surface and that has ABS!
The main reason I fitted them was because my discs and callipers were in need of a refurb or replacement and I like the vented discs that come with the kit.
You pays yer money and…..

[022Dave]

I fitted Wilwoods (or rather Trevor at Faversham did), and they beautifully complement my header tank, CV jointed driveshafts, and uprated hubs!

Dave

[new to this]

I fitted Wilwoods to mine, not hard to fit

Dave

[Paul Kelley]

Thanks too Mike and Dave. I tend to agree with you Mike, the standard front brakes are actually pretty good. I have Green stuff pads, had the discs checked and skimmed a while ago, and they do work fine. Maybe if it ain't broke don't fix it, plus I would save £700 plus. Mmmm, food for thought certainly. Dave, I have CV shafts and uprated hubs too, plus KYB shocks and SOC springs, all made a massive difference to handling and ride.

[MandM]

Doesn't a BMW servo give better brakes with decent pads at a fraction of the price??

[jbuckl]

Stag brakes are similar to transit van from the era.
This means that when restored to original functionality they actually work very well, for the cars weight.

My take is ‘uprating’ to give higher power clamping forces to calipers at front or a disc conversion at the rear is a big no no.

As others said tyres are the limiting factor.

If your stags brakes feel poor, it’s probably because they need a repair, not an upgrade.

[new to this]

Stag brakes are similar to transit van from the era.
This means that when restored to original functionality they actually work very well, for the cars weight.

My take is ‘uprating’ to give higher power clamping forces to calipers at front or a disc conversion at the rear is a big no no.

As others said tyres are the limiting factor.

If your stags brakes feel poor, it’s probably because they need a repair, not an upgrade.

So you wont like mine then, vented disc up front and disc bakes at the rear, plus BMW servo

[mjheathcote]

I feel stock, in good condition, are absolutely fine.
Maybe if you live in the Alps vented could be beneficial to avoid brake fading.
Regarding cost, I've just bought a standard OEM replacement set of front discs and pads for my daily BMW, £500! Makes Stag parts cheap!

[APS]

IMHO if you upgrade the front brakes you will need to upgrade the rear or your braking will become unbalanced. You may end up locking your fronts before the rears have even started to take effect.
upgraded brakes will take less effort to get to the point of locking up your wheels as the tyres will lose the grip from the road at same point as with standard brakes. modern braking systems have the benefit of abs to counter this effect. Abs would be a better upgrade, but even in my daily driver I think the abs has been activated only a few times but of course it is a great accident avoidance system.
Best to invest the money in ensuring the existing braking system is in top notch health.

[Tdafforn]

I think in the end some of this is also down to how you use the car. I suspect the main limitation of the original brake system is heat dissipation. This only becomes an issue if you use the brakes enough in a short enough time to lead to brake fade. In this case vented discs and calipers with larger pads ti dissipate the heat is a good idea. You could also go for pad compounds that work at higher temps, but be very wary as they are often not good in standard use. So now the question is, do you ever feel fade during your current driving or will you be driving in a way in the future which might bring on fade?
If you are a bit of a racer or do lots of mountain passes then this may lead you to improving your braking system because of fade. My own experience with a number of triumphs is that with good pads (also like mintex, if you don’t mind some squeaking) on most normal driving the original systems are good. The only time i have exceeded the capacity of the brakes in my Supercharged TR6 for example has been after track laps at spa and coming down an alpine pass after forgetting about using engine braking! I actually have a 4 pot vented disc setup for the TR in a box in the garage but haven’t been tempted as it is heavier than the original system.
so i guess wether to upgrade depends on the way you drive and that is personal preference. I am by no means a concours addict and i like car “bling” like the next man, but I suspect that for 90% of stag drivers improved brakes aren't really required.
just my thoughts.
tim

[Paul Kelley]

Wow, great feedback from you all as ever - thanks so much. This is what makes this Forum so great, the pooled knowledge and opinions. To address the points raised above: my existing braking system is working fine, with standard discs and good pads. I drive the Stag around 3,000 miles a year, give or take, and on occasions like to get a decent move on. There are some great roads here in Yorkshire/Cumbria/Northumberland/Dumfries and Galloway, my regular regional patch. I've only had minor brake fade a couple of times in over 9 years, that after hard use.

As I said at the start of the thread, I am 'thinking' about an upgrade. But your combined feedback has tapped into my underlying thought - is it really necessary and worth it? - and you've added the important detail of the limiting factor being wheel width and tyre quality. So, my conclusion is to continue to ensure that the stock system is fully up to the task, keep with good pads such as Green Stuff or Mintex (but not track grade), plus decent tyres. All of which I have, so I do believe I have just saved around £700! Hopefully this thread will be of interest to others too. With my sincere thanks.

Paul