Hub to stub axle torque

[sujitroy]

I've been tracing down a vibration, through the steering wheel, while turning left. I thought I'd fixed it by changing the left lower ball joint, but it came back. ( top mount was checked and sorted) I spoke to my go to man here in USA, Terry Hunt, and he said it could be a bearing or a bad wheel. Today I jacked up the front of the car, gave the left wheel a wiggle, and nothing stood out. I wiggled the right wheel and I could feel a bit of play. I went ahead and tightened the nut holding the hub to the stub axle. However, the ROM says to tighten this to 5 lbf ft and then unscrew one flat. If I unscrew by flat, put the split pin back in, and put the wheel back on, I can feel the hub rocking. I then torqued up and unscrewed just enough to get the split pin in. The hub rotates freely.

Is there any harm in unscrewing enough to put a split pin through the nearest hole?


Sujit

[jbuckl]

That’s what you have to do practically speaking…. Unless you change the nut to a pinch/ nut… like Mercedes use to overcome the problem that split-pins give.
the pinch nut has a slot & allen screw to clamp the nut.

[MandM]

I have put a shim under the nut before to give the right preload, so that a split pin hole is usable with that load so to speak, a change of D washer or nut may help, as they vary.

[sujitroy]

Thanks all.

[marshman]

With taper roller bearings as used on the front hubs there must be some end float, which means you will feel some wobble at the wheel rim. A quick search through the R.O.M. doesn't give an actual figure but in my experience of a whole range of vehicles with taper roller bearings you aim for an end float on the hub assembly of around 5 thou ( 0.005"), The dolomite manual gives a range of 2 to 8 thou (8 is getting a bit excessive IMHO), I think on the Land Rover end float allowed is up to 4 thou. Some younger MoT testers have queried "play" in front wheel bearings with me as they are more used to modern front wheel drive cars that have different types of bearings and zero play. I would always err on the side of slightly too loose than too tight as I have come across cars with shot front bearings and when I have dismantled them a) the hub nut has been tight - you can usually undo them with you fingers once the split pin is removed - and b) they are "blue" where they have got hot, probably because they have been done up to tight. When the hub heats up, usually from heat from the brake disc, heat up there is a chance that the differential expansion of the various bits reduces the clearance and results in a bearing that is too tight, which is not good news. They can be a pain to set "nicely" on older cars with wear/scoring in the D washers but I find that by swapping washers side to side or turning the D washers over I usually get to around a couple of thou end float (as measured by a DTI).On rare occaions I have to resort to finding another washer or spending a few minutes reducing the thickness by rubbing them on a a piece of emery cloth on a flat surface.

[wilf]

I am lucky as my MOT tester understands older cars and knows that some play in the wheel bearings is perfectly OK. Indeed, if you follow the ROM instructions, it is inevitable.

[jbuckl]

With taper roller bearings as used on the front hubs there must be some end float, which means you will feel some wobble at the wheel rim. A quick search through the R.O.M. doesn't give an actual figure but in my experience of a whole range of vehicles with taper roller bearings you aim for an end float on the hub assembly of around 5 thou ( 0.005"), The dolomite manual gives a range of 2 to 8 thou (8 is getting a bit excessive IMHO), I think on the Land Rover end float allowed is up to 4 thou. Some younger MoT testers have queried "play" in front wheel bearings with me as they are more used to modern front wheel drive cars that have different types of bearings and zero play. I would always err on the side of slightly too loose than too tight as I have come across cars with shot front bearings and when I have dismantled them a) the hub nut has been tight - you can usually undo them with you fingers once the split pin is removed - and b) they are "blue" where they have got hot, probably because they have been done up to tight. When the hub heats up, usually from heat from the brake disc, heat up there is a chance that the differential expansion of the various bits reduces the clearance and results in a bearing that is too tight, which is not good news. They can be a pain to set "nicely" on older cars with wear/scoring in the D washers but I find that by swapping washers side to side or turning the D washers over I usually get to around a couple of thou end float (as measured by a DTI).On rare occaions I have to resort to finding another washer or spending a few minutes reducing the thickness by rubbing them on a a piece of emery cloth on a flat surface.

the wearing of the d washers does worse on triumphs than any other taper roller hubs I’ve seen.

ccd were offering a special improvement kit for this.

I saw it at a show.

Tried to study what they’d done.

Didnt take enough detailed notice to be able to reccomend it.

In my mind you cannot use a spacer effectively with taper rollers but that appeared to be the gist of the offering.

it’s just possible that the triumph arrangement wasn’t completely sound & that something makes the d washers wear more than other applications of taper rollers.

maybe a pinch nut is the way forward with an improved arrangement for lower wear.

[Goldstar]

With taper roller bearings as used on the front hubs there must be some end float, which means you will feel some wobble at the wheel rim. A quick search through the R.O.M. doesn't give an actual figure but in my experience of a whole range of vehicles with taper roller bearings you aim for an end float on the hub assembly of around 5 thou ( 0.005"), The dolomite manual gives a range of 2 to 8 thou (8 is getting a bit excessive IMHO), I think on the Land Rover end float allowed is up to 4 thou. Some younger MoT testers have queried "play" in front wheel bearings with me as they are more used to modern front wheel drive cars that have different types of bearings and zero play. I would always err on the side of slightly too loose than too tight as I have come across cars with shot front bearings and when I have dismantled them a) the hub nut has been tight - you can usually undo them with you fingers once the split pin is removed - and b) they are "blue" where they have got hot, probably because they have been done up to tight. When the hub heats up, usually from heat from the brake disc, heat up there is a chance that the differential expansion of the various bits reduces the clearance and results in a bearing that is too tight, which is not good news. They can be a pain to set "nicely" on older cars with wear/scoring in the D washers but I find that by swapping washers side to side or turning the D washers over I usually get to around a couple of thou end float (as measured by a DTI).On rare occaions I have to resort to finding another washer or spending a few minutes reducing the thickness by rubbing them on a a piece of emery cloth on a flat surface.

As a naive 20 yo I changed the front wheel bearing on my Scirocco Mk1 GTi on Sunday morning before setting off for my training base at RAF Leuchars some 340 miles away, oh the joys of youth. Well, having tightened the nut to whatever the setting was, I must have got distracted because I clearly didn't wind it back one or 2 flats, whatever it was. Upshot was that I got to Leeds before the hub failed on the M1. Recovery to Leeds followed by the sleeper to Leuchars and a very tired young trainee navigator arrived at about 0830 Monday morning. Suffice to say I learned about following the instructions from that.

[richardthestag]

As a naive 20 yo I changed the front wheel bearing on my Scirocco Mk1 GTi on Sunday morning before setting off for my training base at RAF Leuchars some 340 miles away, oh the joys of youth. Well, having tightened the nut to whatever the setting was, I must have got distracted because I clearly didn't wind it back one or 2 flats, whatever it was. Upshot was that I got to Leeds before the hub failed on the M1. Recovery to Leeds followed by the sleeper to Leuchars and a very tired young trainee navigator arrived at about 0830 Monday morning. Suffice to say I learned about following the instructions from that.

Ham fisted Gibbon

Your car was a lot nicer that the old Ford that I used to smoke around in. Bearings on that were more or less tighten it up until the hub rotation felt harsh, back it off one flat. then use the "thin as tinfoil and very used" tab washer to try hold the lock nut in place. I think steel hub caps were designed to keep all the bits in one place so you could refit it at the roadside. If the bearing howled then tighten it another flat. flippancy of youth eh

Anyone ever done the front RH hub nut on an Allegro? That one was tight, not a taper bearing but it did need a 6 foot scaffold bar on a breaker bar (that I rented from a local hire shop) and a fair bit of weight before it let go with a crack that echoed down the road

Dial gauge is not always essential for measuring wheel bearing end float. always clean the old bearings out thoroughly, taper bearings have a very long life so long as they are not abused. inspect for pitting or damage to the rollers. Always keep each bearing and it's seat as a matched pair. Inspect the seat for a nice uniform matt finish, no pitting, no gouges etc. Reback the bearing thoroughly with an LM grease, tighten it until you feel no play, then tighten another flat. rotate the hub a few times to check for smoothness. see if the nut will take another tightening - without using your 6 foot breaker bar - when it feels good then back off the nut just enough that the bearing rotates anticlockwise, a flat would probably do it. Fit the lock nut and wheel, rotate and check for smoothness. You should barely be able to feel any endfloat in the bearing when rocking the wheel holding top and bottom.

I have worked on a few Landies that have run the bearings too tight, the LM grease doesn't smell nice when it is over heated like that.

Suffice to say, Timken bearings all the way and every day, and don't buy them off ebay because they are a lot cheaper etc.

[sujitroy]

I was able to take the car out for a drive today after a month of crappy weather here in California. My vibration issue seems to have disappeared again. It disappeared once, but resurfaced. The only issue is did it get resolved because I tightened up the bearing or was it due to swapping out the Wolfrace wheels with regular alloy wheels.
Sujit