Rear Seat belts (again)

[alan_thomas]

Sorry to raise this again but hoping to get a response from someone who has actually mounted 3 point inertia belts successfully.
Searched and read all the posts, 2 of the mountings are already there and cause no problems but the third gives many options.
My preferred option would be to have the shoulder strap come over the shoulder in the center of the car to meet the buckle mounted on outside and then return across the lower body to the centre lower mounting. This would seem to be the 'wrong' way but sitting in the back it seems that if the strap came over the shoulder from the outside to the centre it is easy for the passenger to roll sideways out of the belt, fitting it the other way around the passenger cannot roll out of the belt as they are pushed against the seat side.
My preferred way, over shoulder in the centre, requires the retractor to be mounted either :-
1. in the lower centre and the belt pass out between the seat back and seat base or
2. mounted in almost the same place in the centre but the belt passing, vertically, up and over the seat back then down.

I'm gravitating towards 1 (see diagram below) as I cannot see the retractor being strong enough in the case 2 to pull the belt tight. If I made a custom bezel between the seat back and base to keep the seat cushions apart it should be a straight pull and keep the belt tensioned.
thumb_53035.jpg

Now I have read, and agree with, all the fears of the seat back not being strong enough to avoid collapsing down in a big accident but I'm happy to re-enforce the seat frame by filling in the frame from the top rail to the base with 16swg steel sheet (still not perfect but considerably stonger)

The Belts I am thinking of buying are Securon 254

Thoughts? anyone mounted the retractor in the centre? - Alan

[richardthestag]

I installed 3 point belts in the back of my stag, mainly for restraining the kids rock-a-tots and also them as they started to grow. As you have identified though, they are seriously flawed for anyone anywhere near adult sized.

I seem to recall being in the back of a BMW 3 series convertible maybe e46, I really was very very drunk, anyway I recall being amused that the belts reeled out from the centre of the seat and clipped in at the sides. Not sure how this would work on the stag with the hood being dropped into the well though. And I must admit that any idea of mounting the pivot or even reel to the rear seat back rail is going to be about as effective as hanging them from sky hooks. And you still have the same issue in that the belt needs to go higher to go over the shoulder of the poor *******, sorry passenger using it. Reinforcing the seat back hoop to cope with this will use the space that the folder hood needs

In reality I am not convinced that the stag could ever be configured for a safe 3 point rear belt setup. i.e. one that doesn't risk pulverising your shoulder blade deep into the rib cage in the event of a nasty accident.

Personally I recon on a couple of lap belts across the back and a small booklet of taxi company phone numbers for those concerned that a 50 + year old classic doesn't have the restraint system of a new ichifani4000

[mjheathcote]

Hi Alan hope you are keeping well.
When the kids were young fitted the 3 point belts with the shoulder belts over the seat back middle, with retractors in the middle (bolted at low level to the provided reinforced tapped holes, so under the hood)
I get the concern, but, compared to nothing/just the lapbelts, an improvement surely.
Down to your own risk assessment really.
If you are regularly carrying people, and doing high mileage carrying rear passengers, the probability increases, but is still extremely low.
if you look into it too much, you would determine it is too high a risk even driving the car, and that a modern car with all the safery features as air bags should be the only option!
I did think about fabricating a strut brace to strengthen the seat back, but before you know it they are now 20 and 16, and have no interest in riding in the back!

[richardthestag]

in my most humble experiences - mainly because series 2 and 3 land rovers suffer the same issue. a lap belt could* cause less damage than a poorly fitted 3 point. Yes in an extreme and life threatening incident it could well save a life but at the expense of serious skeletal injuries. But with a big but not life threatening incident, more damage could be caused by a 3 point rather than a 2point harness.

My example for series landies, look at an 88" or 109" hardtop and the seatbelt reel is at the top of the b post, the anchor at the base of the b-post may as well be held in with cheese but that is the least of your worry if in a landy that is in the process of stopping really quickly. Alas not all land rovers are hard top, nowadays more are being converted to a full tilt / canvas setup. looks flippin awesome too. But to do so requires that the seatbelt is mounted to the top of the tub at the waist line of the vehicle. this sits quite a bit below the occupants shoulder. The issue is resolved / slightly reduced by fitting a nice beefy rollover hoop (though more at shoulder level than fringe level) to reduce the broken collar bones / shoulder blades.

google land rover series seat belt and these things come up for the first 3 pages https://www.exmoortrim.co.uk/soft-to...-belt-bar.html

Quoted that one because I have fitted them

back to stags, rear seat passengers do not have the hard dash nor the screen rail to slow them down in event of a disaster. and in my opinion a 2 belt setup will hold the occupants arse into the seat but give the freedom for the upper torso and head to find the relative comfort of the back of the front seats, rather than a hard line across their shoulder forcing the torso straight down to the floor.

For the kids it worked, for adults I just cannot see it

[alan_thomas]

I think there are two things here, real safety and perceived safety. Most passengers these days feel uncomfortable without the presence of a belt but rarely evaluate the potential dynamics of an accident.
I also have a Lotus 7 and have a full 5 point harness but being securely attached to an ‘eggshell’ doesn’t really improve your chances in a big accident. You have to make life decisions that suit you.
- Alan