Removing Stag from panel beaters ( Legal standpoint )

[singapore stag]

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mad cyclist wrote:

I would ask to pay for works carried out so far, and collect the car. cannot see why he would /could object or you be doing anything illegal.

good luck Nick

Agree with this chap as to how much work has been done and what the "reasonable" charges are taking into account the time span, messing about etc,etc. Be very firm with them. Don't worry about them calling the old bill, if they do the Police won't do anything if you point out that it is a civil,legal matter.

Get your stag back mate.They will grow bolder if you pussyfoot around, thats how they like it and are......

[davidhelencole]

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Legally the vehicle and all of it's associated parts are your property.The work which you commissioned them to do...or not is a separate contract between yourself and the panel beaters.

They have no legal title to the vehicle whatsoever.My suggestion is that to go in there with all guns blazing is not the way to extricate yourself from them and the situation-though you will more than likely feel that way.

I suggest you go there with a means of removing the vehicle and speak to them frankly and honestly without getting into an argument-be polite but firm.A witness will also be of use for moral support and to witness any untoward attitudes they may present.

I also suggest you tell them that the work is progressing too slowly and you wish to complete the work yourself-although what you wish to do with it is none of their business.

I would also suggest you approach one of these Solicitors who offer free consultation for an hour .They will be able to back up my suggestions although things may be a little different in Scottish law.

You don't mention any monetary arrangements,this may be a sticking point as any verbal agreements will be legally binding,if the conversation were witnessedby anyone.Try to come to an amicable agreement but don't leave without the vehicle as who knows what a disgruntled panel beater may do to your car once you have left.You will of course by this time shown your hand.

[dasadrew]

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Andy Rundell wrote:

......
The conversation is best done face to face, not by email/phone, but do keep a record of the conversation (you could record it if you wished) ..............Andy

Unless the law in Scotland is different, you must tell him that you are recording the conversation otherwise you are committing an illegal act.

[Andy Rundell]

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dasadrew wrote:

Andy Rundell wrote:

......
The conversation is best done face to face, not by email/phone, but do keep a record of the conversation (you could record it if you wished) ..............Andy

Unless the law in Scotland is different, you must tell him that you are recording the conversation otherwise you are committing an illegal act.

In my opinion that statementmay not be correct - there is a distinction between a conversation that you are physically involved in - eg. you and other party(ies) are being recorded in the same location, and recording conversations which you were not physically present at - eg. bugging.

The 'being present at' aspect is important and why, if you ring a call centre, they state the call may be recorded, this is because the parties are not at the same location.

My understanding is that you can record a conversation in which you are an active party and physically present without asking permission...... (In England)

Anyone have any categoric info ?

..........Andy

[Andy Rundell]

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This is an interesting article..... starts of being pretty explicit, but end up kind of contradicting itself later !!

http://www.newbusiness.co.uk/article...-conversations

I think we can assume that is is a murky ara which, dependant upon the judge of the day, may or may not be useful in a court of law !

...........Andy

[dasadrew]

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This is getting way off topic now. Why doesn't Moraystag just go to the workshop and do what he wants to before we all start constructing fantasy scenarios of what might happen?

T'internet forums are probably the worst place to look for serious legal advice - too many ship's lawyers!

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Overt Recording If all partiesknow that a conversation or actions will be recorded,the recording is overt.Anyone opposed to the recording can decline to give their permission and the recording should therefore cease.
Covert Recording Covert recordings are those that are made without the knowledge of the subject of the recordings.
Covert recordingscan be made by bodies who are authorised to do so but they are subject to compliance with the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000 (RIPA).
Covert recordings that do not comply with RIPA either because they are carried out by an unauthorised body or because the RIPA regulations are breached, maybe unlawful and may breach an individual's human rights.

http://www.basingstoke.gov.uk/council/legal/faqs/recordingconversations.htm

[Andy Rundell]

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dasadrew wrote:

This is getting way off topic now. Why doesn't Moraystag just go to the workshop and do what he wants to before we all start constructing fantasy scenarios of what might happen?

T'internet forums are probably the worst place to look for serious legal advice - too many ship's lawyers!

******************************************

Overt Recording If all partiesknow that a conversation or actions will be recorded,the recording is overt.Anyone opposed to the recording can decline to give their permission and the recording should therefore cease.
Covert Recording Covert recordings are those that are made without the knowledge of the subject of the recordings.
Covert recordingscan be made by bodies who are authorised to do so but they are subject to compliance with the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000 (RIPA).
Covert recordings that do not comply with RIPA either because they are carried out by an unauthorised body or because the RIPA regulations are breached, maybe unlawful and may breach an individual's human rights.
http://www.basingstoke.gov.uk/counci...versations.htm

and don't you just love the use of the word 'maybe' and 'may' even when they are trying to be definitive ! As i said - it is a very grey area !

..........Andy

[Moraystag]

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dasadrew wrote:

This is getting way off topic now. Why doesn't Moraystag just go to the workshop and do what he wants to before we all start constructing fantasy scenarios of what might happen?

Dasadrew you may well be correct why don't I just go and take it out which would be the simplest route. Unfortunately I have handed over money and been caught up in a sell out and transision period. The car is un movabale at the moment and last time I was there and had a walk around I could not see all the various bits that have been removed from the interior. The work now seems to be progressing but very very slowly.

The reason I started this was to ask soley for an oppinion just in the off chance that someone out there may have found themselve's in a similar situation in the past, and to find out what may have been the outcome. All very disheartening to find yourself in such a position when initially all seemed tickety boo.

[dasadrew]

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I didn't mean that, but have you already told the guy what you intend to do? Instead of everyone double guessing what might happen, why don't you just say all that you have said here to the guy himself?

You might find that you're having sleepless nights for nothing so to speak. He might agree immediately and just ask you to give him a few hundred quid for the work so far.

If he reacts badly, then that is perhaps the time to seek advice.

At the moment, all I would say is "stay calm, remain polite, remain factual. Give sensible and reasonable deadlines. Agree the next step with him and when you will come to collect or by when he must decide whether he will finish it or give up."

Don't let yourself get whipped into a frenzy by tales of him taking a sledge hammer to it or listen to anyone who says you should visit him with three big mates and their Rottweilers!

[Moraystag]

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Dasadrew pm sent

[Moraystag]

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Well gents, you may not believe this but went through to panel beaters this morning and took along a friend of mine who was a motor engineer with Land Rover.

The floor pan removal and re-installation is progressing slowly but surely and to be perfectly honest the job looks very good and my friend also commented on the quality of the work being undertaken. Have I finally turned the corner, well it doe's seem to be the case. Fingers crossed this may well end up better than I could have imagined although it has taken way to long.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Kevin Garrod]

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Sounds promising! Hang in there

[Andy Rundell]

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Fingers crossed for you !

[Moraystag]

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Thank's guys it's been a long haul trying to get some result regarding this. To be honest I spoke to the new owner yesterday who to be honest has bought a place in decline and has inherited a bit of a mess, this includes personnel.

I was all ready to pull the plug on it today if I found little progress or terrible workmanship. That's why I took my mate through who knows what he's about. Have been waiting for mymate to come along as he is well clued up but was not available before. Thanks for moral support guys and fingers crossed it may be a pleasant suprise in the end:P

[KansasCityMilkman]

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That's good news - lets hope the end is in sight!