iron filings in wire wheel

[SaskStag]

The wheel nuts are bevelled both sides so you can't get them wrong. Yes, the rear adapter hub has a shiny band on it, this one doesn't. It just has the dirt/copper anti-seize band which is suspicious.

Will I have to change the studs to put real wheels on? I thought I just had to take the adapter hubs off?

[marshman]

The wheel nuts are bevelled both sides so you can't get them wrong. Yes, the rear adapter hub has a shiny band on it, this one doesn't. It just has the dirt/copper anti-seize band which is suspicious.

Will I have to change the studs to put real wheels on? I thought I just had to take the adapter hubs off?

On the early Triumph TR's the studs were shorter for the hub adaptors for the wire wheels and the nuts were thinner with a bevel both sides as you say. I know this as we recently swapped from wires to solid steel wheels on one. It you want to go back to solid wheels I am fairly certain you will need new - longer - wheel studs and a new set of wheel nuts for your stag. The studs are fairly easy to change - easier if you take the whole hub assembly off of the stub axle. When fitting wire wheels you usually cut or grind 5/16" (approx 7.5mm) off of the stud. Is there any evidence of the wheel touching the ends of the wheels studs? - it doesn't look like it in the pics but it is hard to see. May be the studs on that wheel were not shortened enough. This would prevent the wheel from seating properly.

Good luck

Roger

[Staggard]

I've just changed the studs on the front to fit new wheels, all I did was screw on a steel wheel nut ( the ones used on the original steel wheels) until a couple of threads and a clout with hammer and out they came, I replaced them using a 1/2" socket with a washer on top and pulled them with the same nut.

[SaskStag]

I've just changed the studs on the front to fit new wheels, all I did was screw on a steel wheel nut ( the ones used on the original steel wheels) until a couple of threads and a clout with hammer and out they came, I replaced them using a 1/2" socket with a washer on top and pulled them with the same nut.

Change the studs on front only? Sorry for any stupid questions....

No sign of wear on the studs that I can see.

Tanya

[Paul Roberts]

"Will I have to change the studs to put real wheels on?"

Yes, Tanya. Unless they're Mk1 steels; the wire wheel studs are too short for standard original alloy wheels.

I agree with Richard (mole42) there is something suspect about that dirty hub mounting.

The whole hub moving which you mentioned is, most likely, just the wheel bearings needing adjusting and not, necessarily, related to the wheel mounting/location issue.

[Staggard]

Change the studs on front only? Sorry for any stupid questions....

No sign of wear on the studs that I can see.

Tanya

No Tanya I changed the studs on my car. I was just pointing out that it is not necessary to strip the hubs off the car to do it.

[SaskStag]

Thanks everyone for your awesome advice.

I will look into this. I have to do back brakes anyway over winter so can change studs then if necessary.
Tanya

[Motorsport Micky]

Tanya,

I think we may be assuming you know how these spoke wheel conversions work.

The splined hub adaptors are held on with nuts which have a heavy chamfer on either side as you noticed, one side of the nut the chamfer mates with the hub adaptor taper around the studs, the other side of the nut needs the chamfer to give a clearance upon the INSIDE of the splined wheel centre to avoid the wheel bottoming out. These nuts can be fitted either way around as you noticed, the chamfer being the same.

Because of this double chamfer on the nuts the studs are much shorter than those fitted for standard or other steel/alloy wheels. You say there is a difference in stud length on the wheel giving the problem, I should inspect those studs minutely checking to see if the longer stud or the double chamfer nuts are fouling upon the inside of the wheel centre, preventing the wheel being tightened up on the splines by the outside lug spinner when whacked with a hammer. If there is any doubt I should ensure all the studs are shortened (in situ if you wish) to the length of the shortest ensuring that the wheel is able to be bedded up snugly upon the hub adaptor chamfer, and then check that the lug spinner on the outside doesn't bottom out before it's able to clamp the wheel against the hub adaptor chamfer.

Because the vehicle hubs have these shortened studs you cannot just remove the splined hubs and fit steel or alloy wheels, the stud lengths are not long enough to allow that. In engineering we normally allow the stud dia and a half stud dia to be used for the engaged nut, in other words a 1/2" wheel stud dia would have that dia used as a length and an additional 1/4" added on giving an engaged length of thread of 3/4" as a minimum. Don't think that because the adaptor nuts are shorter that you can use nuts of the that length to locate the steel or alloy wheels.
Where the stud length is too short the hubs need removing from the vehicle and the studs driven out backwards (they locate with self cutting splines into the hubs) and replacing with new full length studs which will allow the full nut engagement required. Sometimes you can replace the studs whilst the hubs are on the vehicle, it depends upon what space is there for feeding the new full length studs in from the rear.

Micky

[Staggard]

You can always paint the end of the studs then when dry replace the wheel tighten it up and spin it , remove it, and see if its taken the paint off.

[SaskStag]

Thanks Mickey. Great explanation.

More homework from Graham......will report back, but give me a few days...

[SaskStag]

Reporting back with results of homework

Paint does get smoothed down on the nuts with the shorter length of stud and not the longer stud. Whoops, I misread Graham's post and painted the nuts instead of studs...think I'll stick to painting my nails instead.....

There are 3 studs with 1 mm stud protruding from the nut and one stud protruding 3 mm. I thought that was too long and the culprit until I removed the rear right wheel and all 4 studs are protruding by 3 mm. Bad wheel on left.
IMG_3169low rs.jpg Rear rightlow res.jpg

I also took a photo of the inside of the damaged wheel. Notice the area of wear and an area of decent splines. The other photo is the inside of the undamaged rear wheel now in the sacrificial position on the right front.

Inside damaged wheel right frontlowres.jpg Good wheel from right rearlowres.jpg

I'm still considering my options...and looking at regular wheels. Another winter job. Looks like the right front wheel only has ornamental value now.


By the way, what is the centre bore size for a Stag?

Many thanks for advice

[LD334]

This image from the ROM shows that there should be no contact between the nuts and the wheel, if there is contact I suspect that this may be the issue causing the problem.
I'm restoring my car just now and am looking at fitting wires so am interested in any issues with these wheels.
IMG_0008.jpg

[SaskStag]

Been doing some reading on other forum sites for similar hub wear threads. I'm beginning to think the stud length is a red herring, looking at photos of other set-ups, and I simply have knackered wheels. Of course, I stand to be corrected; I'm no mechanic.

Moral of story: Don't bother getting old wires re-laced with new spokes and don't get them refurbished. The restored wheels weren't balanced on the car and I don't know if the refurbishers did the balancing properly (see Rimmers and Moss Motors explanations). Save money and buy a completely new set up if the wheels and adapter hubs look bad. My wheels had missing spokes which prompted me to have them replaced with SS......come to think of it...it was the right front wheel too.

To stick with new wires, Dayton wire wheels (bolt on or spine) are about US$520/wheel. They do sell wires for the Stag.

That is a big chunk of money though. I like the look of wires, but safety first.....

So I'm looking for ideas on regular wheels.......

Cheers
Tanya

[Staggard]

Been doing some reading on other forum sites for similar hub wear threads. I'm beginning to think the stud length is a red herring, looking at photos of other set-ups, and I simply have knackered wheels. Of course, I stand to be corrected; I'm no mechanic.

Moral of story: Don't bother getting old wires re-laced with new spokes and don't get them refurbished. The restored wheels weren't balanced on the car and I don't know if the refurbishers did the balancing properly (see Rimmers and Moss Motors explanations). Save money and buy a completely new set up if the wheels and adapter hubs look bad. My wheels had missing spokes which prompted me to have them replaced with SS......come to think of it...it was the right front wheel too.

To stick with new wires, Dayton wire wheels (bolt on or spine) are about US$520/wheel. They do sell wires for the Stag.

That is a big chunk of money though. I like the look of wires, but safety first.....

So I'm looking for ideas on regular wheels .......

Cheers
Tanya

They might be :- bespoke ( joke in there somewhere) but think of all the time you will save cleaning them

[SaskStag]

yeah, I hope they will be round-shaped