Advice on Previous Welding Repairs

[Firept]

Mark.
A thought.
Have a look if your local tech college does evening courses on welding they are worth doing even if you've done it before, it gives you a chance to practice on someone else's metal and its all controlled in the warm.
Might get a chance to do TIG as well as MIG and gas.

Paul.

[new to this]

Mark.
A thought.
Have a look if your local tech college does evening courses on welding they are worth doing even if you've done it before, it gives you a chance to practice on someone else's metal and its all controlled in the warm.
Might get a chance to do TIG as well as MIG and gas.

Paul.

i did one off those courses, didn't get the chance to do tig welding,but had the use of spray booth ,and all the metal work toys great course

dave

[StokeyStag]

Mark.
A thought.
Have a look if your local tech college does evening courses on welding they are worth doing even if you've done it before, it gives you a chance to practice on someone else's metal and its all controlled in the warm.
Might get a chance to do TIG as well as MIG and gas.

Paul.

Hi Paul,

I looked around for these before I bought my Stag thinking I might get a(n intended) project but looks like the local colleges don't have the budget or see a demand for it - unless of course (pun not intended) someone knows different here in sunny Staffs.

Mark

[deanoed]

terrible job mate it needs cutting out and doing properly i certainly couldnt drive it about like that .....dean

[73stagman]

Well, thanks Neil (Flying Farmer) and Neil (73stagman) - between you both I'm now between a rock and a hard place. Either cover it up and live with it until some point in the future or tackle it now.

Whenever I do anything I like it to be as near spot on / perfect as my abilities allow so I understand where 73stagman is coming from, albeit not altogether in tune with his last sentence (unless thinking of passing the problem on to some other poor soul).

On the otherhand, Flying Farmer's comments are pragmatic - I would get to use the car this summer and maybe beyond and have time to learn to weld and even find a suitable space where I can do the work. It's the "will take weeks rather than days" bit that puts me off the whole damn thing. I suppose I should check the floor from the inside before I finally decide ?

Anyway, I'll probably cover and paint up in the short term and bite the bullet in the late summer, domestic chores permitting of course. At least that's my plan, after a beer or two now to wet my throat and a bottle of red tonight I might change my mind !

Attached is a link to a short video for you sadists who like to see other people's problems - it's under the near sides floor that I stripped earlier today. I found patches on both outriggers this time and on the front end of the chassis rail. At least the latter didn't have any filler about it ! Sorry about the quality but my bones and joints were aching at this point - I did discover that a doubled up yoga mat is great for kneeling on and the dirt can be wiped off afterwards.

Enjoy Part 3 - another Stokeystag production - http://vimeo.com/64003666

Mark

Sorry if I was a bit abrupt but I have seen too many cover ups in car repairs. Maybe they were originally intended to be temporary but they end up permanent. My mate has had to make a similar decision to you. His car was bought with a current MOT that was almost expired when he took it for a pre mot it was condemned as dangerous. The repairs had been tacked together with braze sealed with silicone and painted over. These repairs were to the front chassis legs, outriggers, floors, sills and suspension mounts. He decided that the repairs needed doing so he could drive it. The car was in my garage for six weeks where we cut out all the rubbish stuff and made new bits not copy panels or soctfl bits (we even beat a new lower wing repair after we hsd made a repair panel for the front of the sill) to weld in. The plan is to use the car this year whilst he gets new panels together and the we will do a full bare shell restore.
The old repairs are just not suitable any more than using old worn out suspension bushes. The repairs should be made good even if you dont replace with new panels. The welds need to be full seams even if the patches are rough. They dont need to be real soctfl or even copy panels, they just have to be welded in properly. It doesn't matter if the end shape isnt quite right at least you will know the car is structurally sound. If you cant do the welding yourself yet you should find a small local car repair / welder to do a proper welding job just get a fixed price first. Brian was quoted three hundred quid but to be honest the bill would have ended up at least twice that and the work would have just stopped until they had come to an agreement. It cost us a couple of hundred in steel welding gas and midnight oil.We did replace all the suspension bushes at the same time. Passed its MOT at first time of asking.

[edd]

Your car is an exact replica of mine ( and lots on here I guess ) take a look through my Edd stag project page and so far I have been over a year solid welding. Once you start digging be prepared for finding even more. If your floor has been replaced at the edges your inner sill might need looking at. It's hard to think one would rot and not the other.
It's a sinking feeling finding filler but it's a great feeling knowing your doing it right rather than bodging.
Good luck , Edd

Ps lets not forget our cars are monocoque and any repairs should be done correctly.

[jakesmig]

Mark,
I use a Miller Integra 155 which has variable speed and power controls an turbo cooling fans. I would describe it as a good high level diy / semi pro unit, good for continual high output. It has a wide power range and is good for long continual use and also thin panel work. I use a semi large CO2 bottle for gas which I get filled at a local fire extinguisher service outlet for £17.00. It is normally an argon / co2 mix which people use but I get good results from the straight co2 at a fraction of the cost.
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Try to avoid 'hobby' welders that have variable speed but high / low power switch. in my experience they heat up too quickly and begin to deliver variable power which affects the quality of the weld, and you spend ages waiting for them to cool down before you can carry on.
I noticed the attached is currently on e-bay at the moment, I would say it is a current upgrade on mine.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Miller-MIG-Welder-240-volt

Another similar unit is the Clarke 150TE (Turbo) MIG Welder from machine mart, circa £310

Bear in mind I am an amateur, I do good welding but my opinion may be a load of crap. There are others on here well able to reccomend units as well.
good luck,
John.

[72BLUE]

I would buy a middle of the range MIG welder and one of those auto-dimming head visors, nothing to costly, sort yourself out with a cheap supply of Argoshield and have a go by learning to weld on scrap steel. There is nothing too complex about MIG welding as long as you read up about it on the web. You do not need to go on a college course to learn. If you have a steady hand it is really straightforward and is nothing to be afraid of.

In fact, as a fellow Stokie, if you buy all of the kit, pop down to my place in Hough with it all and I will show you how to use it :-) I am only 10 mins away down the 'D' road.

ps, Pulis out!

Cheers
Keith

[StokeyStag]

Evening Neil,

No apology needed, I didn't detect the nearest hint of abruptness in your 1st post. I know exactly where you're coming from, having had a good second look and some time to think I'm sure that my car isn't dangerous as it currently is but I do accept that I need to rectify a PO's sins. As with all of us, budgets have to be set, saved for, and adhered to (hopefully !).

I've already had a look at what it would cost me to buy and do the repairs myself, skill permitting, and also put a feeler out for getting a guideline cost from someone who does this sort of thing for a living. So it'll be a case of getting it done, by whatever means, but not immediately, most likely late summer.

Having read elsewhere on this forum about people being unhappy with other users, I think it's important to realise that it takes all sorts (and their honest opinions) to make the world go round and to allow folks in situations like mine to made properly informed decisions with help from everyone. So thanks for your comments and I hope when I eventually get the work done and post the pics here you'll like the results.

Mark

[StokeyStag]

Aarrrgh,

Why is it when you're replying to one post three more arrive ! Still, can't complain at all the help. Thanks guys.

Edd, I've been trying very hard not to think about the sills but I'm aware of what might be ahead. Do you, or anyone else for that matter, know of a quick and non invasive way to check them out ? Also Edd, thanks for your brilliant thread, I'm one of those silent ones who's been watching with great interest and am sorry I can't get to the Bristol show due to a prior commitment as I would like the opportunity to meet.

John, thanks for the advice re welders, the item on the fleabay link has been deleted but you've given me plenty to go on,

Keith, you are most definitely on. I'll pm you if, as, and when I get some kit. I only hope your significant other half won't miss you too much whilst we in the mancave !! Also, TP has had his day.

Mark

[Stag therapy]

If you going to buy a welder make sure it is suitable for the power supply you intend to run it from. Some machines look the dogs danglies, but are unsuitable for a domestic power supply, assuming of course you plan on working in your garage.

A gas welder will also give much cleaner welds.

Baz

[Mike Stevens]

My MiG is a 130A non-turbo and I would consider that to be the minimum. I also think a turbo cooling fan is a necessity. I've had mine cut out due to heat too often - usually just as you're about to finish something! I use argoshield from BoC. Perhaps twice the price of just CO2 (not including the hire fee) but I think it gives a better weld. If you're inexperienced you will probably find gas much more difficult and frustrating. The heat build up is much more and you really need someone else to be watching the other side of the panel.

My Stag restoration - finished last year - was done with this MiG. I used bought-in outer panels where the fit was important, but inner ones I made myself. Shaping steel is not difficult. I also used overlap or joddled joints, plug and seam welded for the repair patches, but always cut back to good original metal first. Don't forget the seam sealer afterwards! Just slapping some new metal over the old rusted stuff is asking for more trouble in the future.

Good luck and enjoy the car!

Cheers,
Mike.

[72BLUE]

Here you go Mark, it seems that living in the the Potteries, football aside, does have some advantages

No ongoing expensive rental charges........

http://www.davidsmithson.co.uk/gas/welding_gas.html

Keith

[StokeyStag]

Mike & Keith, thanks for the info. Keep it coming.

Baz, I'm aware that I'll need a single phase welder and am competent enough to install a dedicated 16A or 20A supply but... I can't get the car into my garage thanks to the last owner of the house who build a small extension and as the garage is slightly off-set to the drive no decent sized car will get in so it's now a utility/junk room. That means I am limited to a 13A 3-pin plug machine so I can take it where ever.

Degreased the underside today before so I can put rust converter and primer on and also stripped the seats and carpets out to check the top side of the floor, I found an interesting, er, er, feature I suppose you might call it in the driver's side footwell. Video to follow later.

Thanks again folks,

Mark

[joel h]

Mike & Keith, thanks for the info. Keep it coming.

Baz, I'm aware that I'll need a single phase welder and am competent enough to install a dedicated 16A or 20A supply but... I can't get the car into my garage thanks to the last owner of the house who build a small extension and as the garage is slightly off-set to the drive no decent sized car will get in so it's now a utility/junk room. That means I am limited to a 13A 3-pin plug machine so I can take it where ever.

Degreased the underside today before so I can put rust converter and primer on and also stripped the seats and carpets out to check the top side of the floor, I found an interesting, er, er, feature I suppose you might call it in the driver's side footwell. Video to follow later.

Thanks again folks,

Mark

Hi Mark i am following your journey into metalwork with interest as i thought you had filmed the underside of my stag, as it looks very similar to mine, and i hope to sort my problems out this ( dont laugh SUMMER). good luck and keep the video diary coming. cheers
Joel.