Advice on Previous Welding Repairs

[StokeyStag]

mark

just found this on ebay 121095697958 may be of some help

dave

Cheers Dave,

I saw his advert yesterday and contacted him through the ebay site and he replied this morning. Then, as his advert had been pulled in the meantime I had difficulty responding to him but did manage it eventually. Still waiting for him to get back to me so I can point him to the videos and get a guesstimate.

Mark

[flying farmer]

As has been said before, the patching looks good, it just needs welding properly, to cut that lot out and start again would be a huge job, and a lot more expensive and time consuming than just cleaning up and welding.

As for the patch at the back I would leave the seat mount in place and cut it out and replace from underneath. The alternative is just to leave it there as this area only tends to rust from the outside in, unless water gets in from the rear footwell, rust here shouldnt be too much of a problem.
The rot at the front comes from screen leaks or water coming down the A posts which wicks its way along the double skin of the inner sill to floor joint.


Neil

[paul.twyman]

Hi all,

This has been a great thread and I have read it all this morning. All the comments are valid.

There is a lot of it about it seems. I am going through the same pain at the moment. Having spent the winter rebuilding an engine and gearbox I found the dreaded tin worm whilst poking around. Don't get me wrong I am glad I found what I did as it would have been a straight fail at the MOT but having a friendly mechanic was great as he told me what I needed to do.
Just replaced an outrigger and made a repair to the sill area and floor. I know that over the next winter I will be pulling the nearside sill out and replacing it completely. It is amazing how far you can chase a small rust hole into a large area of panel. I am adopting the Flying farmers pragmatic approach at the moment and cutting out and replacing where necessary so as to get it through an MOT. Then over winter I will re-evaluate. I am lucky in that ELS has been extensively repaired before but who ever did it was good. So good in fact I did not realise and I thought it was all original. It has however had new sills and lower wings before.
I went on a 12 week college course and learnt the art of welding. I must say however welding upside down, bent double, pain, oh and outside in any wind, is not that easy. The gas gets blown away and the weld is a bit crappy. I have started using the pre fluxed wire and that helps outside. Also my MIG welder is not so good as the wire feed slows when the arc varies. I need to give it a bit of a going over.

The one thing I have found is that welding is all about preparation. It may take 3 hours to prep and only 15 minutes to weld but the reward is fantastic.

I wish you all luck and keep up the good work.

Me

Paul

[milothedog]

Which Mig

One important thing IMO and that nobody has said yet, is whatever you buy make sure parts and consumables are readily available for it and preferably one that has a quick change Trigger/hose/wire feed assembly.


Ian

[Rubce]

Remember to remove all flammable stuff from inside your cars and remove language sensitive people to a safe distance.

Chortle, how true!! Plus have a bucket of water or fire extinguisher handy if the car has been waxoyl previously in that area! It smokes like billiow!

Bruce

[Mike Stevens]

And make sure there's no wire wool around either. That goes off like a firework. And yes, I've done it!

I agree about the preparation. Cleanliness is also important as any dirt on the metal will stop the arc forming properly. A quick run over the area to weld with a grinding disc does the job for me. Not a wire brush as that seems to just spread the muck about rather than remove it.

I too enjoy welding as you seem to go from a grotty bit of rusty metal with holes so something solid and shiny quite quickly.

Cheers,
Mike.

[Stag therapy]

Which Mig

One important thing IMO and that nobody has said yet, is whatever you buy make sure parts and consumables are readily available for it and preferably one that has a quick change Trigger/hose/wire feed assembly.

Ian

I'm using the same as Goldstar; Clarke 135TE from Machine Mart. Got mine on one of their VAT free offers, along with a big spool of 8mm wire and the gas gauges and fitting for a big gas bottle.

Machine Marts are all over the place. The welder comes with everything you need to get started, including a couple of tips, but the reality is, if you do start with what the welder comes with, you will not weld for very long.

I struggled getting the settings right with the small reel of 6mm wire that comes with it, (blow through in particular), but that wire doesn't last long anyway. Personally I am much happier with the 8mm.

The supplied gas bottle is of use only as a paperweight or an emergency weld when you have run out of your main bottle of gas. I couldn't get hold of Argoshield 5 at a reasonable price and so opted for 95%Co2 5%Ar from a nearby supplier and pay only for the gas used. Not as neat welds as higher concentrations of Argon, but then I tend not to do pretty welds anyway. (At least only occasionally).

And as has been said elsewhere, make sure there is a suitable extinguisher to hand.

Baz

[StokeyStag]

Hi folks,

No chance to “work at home” today and had to drive to the office which has been useful as it put a little distance between me and that damned floor and I hopefully have a better perspective now.

I’ve as good as decided to cover up and paint up for the summer before getting stuck into it later in the year – MOT in July permitting. Meantime I’ll have to sort out a welder and some practice. On this theme, whilst driving to work this morning I remembered a thread I’ve been following on another forum by a chap who is restoring a thoroughly rotten Ford Thames campervan. He posted a huge amount of detailed stuff about his metal repairs and I thought at the time that I’d like to have a go, albeit at something simpler and easier, and now I have my chance.

I’ve just re-read this entire thread and want to say thanks to all of you who have commented, with specific or technical advice on what to do; with encouragement; with welding tips; and, also to those who have given pointers towards what features to look for on a welder. I’d even like to thank the individual who left a brief post that reminded me of the sound made when “the expert” sucks the air in though his/her teeth before delivering the most unwanted news !

I have two final questions at the moment before I start the cover up –

1) What is the thickness of the (good) metal on the Stag and any standard repair panels?

2) In the video of the inside driver’s side floor you could see a large section that wasn’t welded along two edges (the left edge runs forward to rear past the left hand side of the disk in the floor and the front edge runs left to right forward of the disk). Looking at Rimmer's catalogue that join / break shouldn't be there, any ideas of what's going on there ?

Once again, thanks to you all and I hope you have a great Drive It Day.

Mark

[Stag therapy]

Mark

Q1. I don't know the thickness of Stag panels, but the restorer Martin Thaddeus refers to using 20swg (0.7mm) for repair work.

Q2. No the join/break shouldn't be there in the floor panel. Given the welding which has gone on, it seems surprising this wasn't welded, even if it was a bodge and filled. I would be looking more closely to see if there is any evidence of what, if any repair was carried out, on this part of the floor. It is, I suppose possible, that the floor was partly replaced in the past and the part which lifts was one of the cut edges, but if that was the case, it comes back to my earlier comment about a bodge and filled.
I can't see it clearly from the video, but if there is good metal where the floor lifts, I'd suggest this needs to be welded. Even if you go down the route of filler and underseal covering some of the welded patches until time/finances permit, there is limited structural integrity in that floor panel.

Baz

[SUTTY1]

Hi Mark
only just read this thread, been in the motor trade for years, seen your vids and i'd be inclined to go for a cover up enjoy for the summer and put right in the winter or some time soon. With this approach cover it with something easy to remove and not stoddy underseal and filler
best of look and enjoy
steve

[big lad]

Mark,
just got a post card from Machine Mart, saying they are running a VAT free weekend at the Stoke store, you are welcome to use it for a Clarke welder, which will make it 20% cheaper.Or failing that you could try Fuzz and Co on Car SOS, they will have it done in three weeks,LOL.

regards

Tony

[StokeyStag]

Mark,
just got a post card from Machine Mart, saying they are running a VAT free weekend at the Stoke store, you are welcome to use it for a Clarke welder, which will make it 20% cheaper.Or failing that you could try Fuzz and Co on Car SOS, they will have it done in three weeks,LOL.

regards

Tony

Cheers Tony,

I might well take you up on that, I've got your phone number. I wouldn't mind if Fuzz had a go providing he didn't:

a) wear such stupid hats
b) try to dress like a teenager (you know, loose low slung trews that give us all a good view of his underwear)
c) bring that tw4t Tim with him.

Mark

[Princejohny]

Mark,
Regarding the structural integrity of the panels making up the floor, although there are a lot of gaps in the welding, I believe the original floor panels were spot welded in, anyway. The main strength of the structure (although a monocoque) is in the sills, outriggers and transmission tunnel. Indeed each standard version of the floor panels has a large almost fist sized jig hole, with a metal plate 'glued' to it.
The vehicle has obviously lost some of it's integrity as a whole, (who knows what nasties may lurk inside the sills?) but the point of having an older vehicle like this, is to use it and enjoy it. The Stag will never be as safe as a new BMW or Volvo tailgating at 90mph but you probably won't drive it like that. My vote is to use it, so long as brakes etc are up to scratch and fix it after the summer.
Cheers Johny

[edd]

Hi Mark
only just read this thread, been in the motor trade for years, seen your vids and i'd be inclined to go for a cover up enjoy for the summer and put right in the winter or some time soon. With this approach cover it with something easy to remove and not stoddy underseal and filler
best of look and enjoy
steve

This was going to be my aproach but then I thought do I really want to be in a freezing cold garage. It depends on what facilities you have. When you whey up the time spent doing a quick fix as to getting stuck in and fixing it you'll be suprised how quick you learn. My advice is miss a summer and get her back for next spring it's painfull but worth it in the end I think. I have missed two summers but not a days sunshine you won't miss much. Famous last words ehh
Again good luck and whatever you decide we will all support you
I'm in Bristol if ever you are close pop in for a go on my welder.
Edd

[stag-phil]

In my opinion I would not cover up what you have already exposed. If you do, you will be back at square one and when you tackle the job again because it is out of sight and therefore out of mind the situation will be a lot worse when you do have to carry out the repairs.

The first think I would do is get the car back onto its wheels and then jack the car up at key structural points (one at a time). While jacking the car observe the door gaps between the ‘A’ and ‘B’ posts and as a double check open and close the door. Repeat for the other side of the car. If there are any changes to the gaps there may be structural issues with the car.

I suspect there won’t be because it would appear from the videos that the car is quite sound just needs welding properly.

I would also suggest that unless you plan to do any further welding rather than buy a mig have the repair panels seam welded by a competent welder. The majority of the work has already been done making and fitting the panels so there is probably 2 to 3 days of work required to weld the panels in properly. You will then have peace of mind that the job has been done correctly and the end result is a sound car.

Once the welding has been completed and ground back to a smooth finish use a seam sealer rather than filler to finish the job.

Great post, best of luck and thanks for showing us the videos.

Phil